UNLOCKING CDMA I910 GPS - please help us!

[Guest mpenrod]

Well it would be nice if Skywing would help us out, for some reason he's just not interested. Either way Verizon is going to release an update inside 6 months to open GPS on the Omnia.

I'd rather not wait 6 months though.

[Guest paradizelost]

Well it would be nice if Skywing would help us out, for some reason he's just not interested. Either way Verizon is going to release an update inside 6 months to open GPS on the Omnia.

I'd rather not wait 6 months though.

If anyone has contact info for skywing, i don't think we'd have trouble getting enough people together that we could offer a couple hundred combined to get this done. Hell, it'd still be cheaper than paying the $10/mo for 6 months, x 10 people doing it...

[Guest M Moogle]

I'm having trouble getting this to work, however it's because the damn gpstest keeps giving me "failed to initialize GPSSEC"

Yeah, I usually get that too. It seems to be dumb luck to get it timed JUUUST right to work. Make sure you do a soft-reset before trying, and don't open up anything remotely GPS-related beforehand.

[Guest M Moogle]

Well it would be nice if Skywing would help us out, for some reason he's just not interested. Either way Verizon is going to release an update inside 6 months to open GPS on the Omnia.

I'd rather not wait 6 months though.

There's the skeptic inside of me that thinks that Verizon is going to pull some crap like "Oh, well, its open to other GPS apps as long as you give us $10/month in extortion GPS server location fees, or as long as you subscribe to VZNav. Otherwise why would it take 6 months to undo what they did to the firmware. It was unlocked to begin with...

[Guest dddragon2]

Quick question... I got GPStest to work fine on my Omnia w/o gpsserver? What exactly does gpsserver do?

[Guest dddragon2]

Yeah, I usually get that too. It seems to be dumb luck to get it timed JUUUST right to work. Make sure you do a soft-reset before trying, and don't open up anything remotely GPS-related beforehand.

For me it seems like you just need to make sure you only open one instance. Just double click it and wait.. sometimes it takes a while for it to come up. If you accidently click it too many times or get impatient you will get the message.

[Guest paradizelost]

Quick question... I got GPStest to work fine on my Omnia w/o gpsserver? What exactly does gpsserver do?

All gpstest does is read the data from gps and display the coords on screen. What gpsserver does, it replaces the windows mobile API that google maps, microsoft live, etc... use to access the GPS data.

Basically, GPSServer acts as a middle man between the encrypted data session and your app.

Edited December 18, 2008 by paradizelost

[Guest yojoe600]

i am really upset that verizon will not hurry up and open it earlier i loved having gps even though i was using vz nav unlimited for free bc i had the premium plan but since i got the omnia i had to change plans and now i dont want to pay 10 dollars for gps

[Guest NEvitable]

Long time lurker first time poster. :rolleyes:

Found this bit of info regarding Verizon actually opening up GPS as on the Blackberry:

"Verizon Wireless, like all carriers, orders devices to meet certain specifications inclusive of features. Each of these specs is tested to determine if it meets our performance goals. There are instances when the phone will pass our extensive testing process but a specific feature may not meet the standard. We will often choose to introduce the phone without that feature but ask that the manufacturer come back to us with revised software that has to be tested to make sure the service works the same across our entire wireless footprint –from Maine to Hawaii. In the case of open standalone GPS, we are partnering with the Windows Mobile device manufacturers to provide a software upgrade that will add this capability to the existing assisted GPS capability. This is a complex development project to provide open standalone GPS while maintaining the assisted GPS capability with the level of performance and security that our customers expect. The recently introduced Windows Mobile devices including Omnia, Saga, and Touch Pro are targeted to add open standalone GPS in the 1st half of 2009.

Steve Schwed

Verizon Wireless

HQ Executive Relations Supervisor "

**supposedly email from Steve. First half of 09 is coming fast but not fast enough.

[Guest dhoppy]

Long time lurker first time poster. :rolleyes:

Found this bit of info regarding Verizon actually opening up GPS as on the Blackberry:

"Verizon Wireless, like all carriers, orders devices to meet certain specifications inclusive of features. Each of these specs is tested to determine if it meets our performance goals. There are instances when the phone will pass our extensive testing process but a specific feature may not meet the standard. We will often choose to introduce the phone without that feature but ask that the manufacturer come back to us with revised software that has to be tested to make sure the service works the same across our entire wireless footprint –from Maine to Hawaii. In the case of open standalone GPS, we are partnering with the Windows Mobile device manufacturers to provide a software upgrade that will add this capability to the existing assisted GPS capability. This is a complex development project to provide open standalone GPS while maintaining the assisted GPS capability with the level of performance and security that our customers expect. The recently introduced Windows Mobile devices including Omnia, Saga, and Touch Pro are targeted to add open standalone GPS in the 1st half of 2009.

Steve Schwed

Verizon Wireless

HQ Executive Relations Supervisor "

**supposedly email from Steve. First half of 09 is coming fast but not fast enough.

where did you find that?

page 26 of this thread?

[Guest paradizelost]

i am really upset that verizon will not hurry up and open it earlier i loved having gps even though i was using vz nav unlimited for free bc i had the premium plan but since i got the omnia i had to change plans and now i dont want to pay 10 dollars for gps

Not only that, but VZNav sucks ass compared to microsoft live search or google maps. it's just plain difficult to use.

[Guest somedude]

Not only that, but VZNav sucks ass compared to microsoft live search or google maps. it's just plain difficult to use.

I find it pretty hilarious how verizon states that "Verizon needs to ensure that any GPS application we put on our phone meets our standards"

When VZ NAVIGATOR is a piece of sh1t!

Well actually, it is decent, i like how it says the street names, but IGO 8 navigator and Google Maps blow it out of the water.

I actually hope verizon becomes one of the companies to go out of business.(So many companies are going out of business in the US).

I dont know how they survived this long with their unscrupulous tatics.

How dare they try to STEAL 9.99 a month from us, when the US economy in its worst shape in decades?!?!?!??!

Even though AT&T has its own AT&T navigator program, at least they didnt encrypt the gps on their AT&T phones.

Im sorry, but i had to vent. I really hope what verizon is doing makes national news. This is damn disgrace.

Edited December 18, 2008 by somedude

[Guest roleyz]

where did you find that?

page 26 of this thread?

Hey I found a similar article here:

http://www.electronicsinfoline.com/News/Ne...ps-feature.html

[Guest paradizelost]

Guys, please stop re-posting the same crap over and over. This thread is already pretty bad as it is, lets not make it any worse than it needs to be.

Roleyz, i think you missed the sarcasm that somedude had, saying that the article posted was already posted in the thread.

[Guest Doc007]

No, that's not what I'm describing. What I did was the following:

1) Installed GPSServer and my hacked-up dll files

2) Start Google Maps

3) Click "Use GPS" and then as quick as possible click on the icon to Skywing's GPSTest program

4) Click back to Google Maps quickly

5) GPSTest will never appear to open, and Google Maps will start getting valid location information from GPSServer

6) Fire up MS Live Search, it will also get GPS data

Basically any app will get GPS data at this point (well, I haven't gotten TomTom to work yet) - however as soon as the last program that needs GPS data is closed, GPSServer closes itself and won't work again. Whats probably happening is that GPSServer and GPSTest are getting their wires crossed when initializing the hardware/firmware - and the result is that GPSServer sorta works for a little while. Its not perfect: as can be seen in the log file I posted it doesn't always decrypt sucessfully and does other wierd things.

What you're describing is almost exactly what we found a few weeks ago when playing around with VZNav:

1) Have something request GPS access

2) Open VZNav and have it send a location request

3) Applications in the background will see GPS satellites and data, but the data is bogus because its encrypted

4) As soon VZNav looses focus, those background apps loose any GPS "data" as well since VZNav isn't sending the challenge/reponses to/from the GPS hardware/firmware.

Unless you've also replaced the various GPS .dll files on your Omnia, what youre seeing is a variaton of the above, except with GPSTest initializing the GPS instead of VZNav.

Skywing's GPSTest is an EXTREMELY minimal program that does the following: Handshakes with the GPS hardware/firmware and decrypts the location info - thats it. It can't be configured or write files anywhere, or do anything else of use.

This is my first post, Ive been keeping up with the thread for a while now. It really does seem like this thread is turning into a rant. Maybe people who want to discuss Verizons proposed opening of the GPS in the 1st 1/2 of 2009 can make another thread. That thread could serve as a listing of the latest news releases regarding that topic. This would help organize the threads better and make it a lot easier for people to keep up them.

In reference to M Moogle's post, would it be possible to make a .cab file that will open these programs in succession? Considering that this seems like a timing issue maybe the .cab can be programmed in such a way that the user can input different time delays between the time where one program open and another. Once the exact time sequence is figured out, someone can try to figure out what is going on behind the scenes which is allowing the correct communication to occur between the GPS chip and the programs.

This is just a thought, unfortunately I have no experience with programming with WinMo. However, maybe someone who does can put something like this together so that those who own an omnia can play around with the timing sequence and post what works for them.

[Guest rapcon]

This is my first post, Ive been keeping up with the thread for a while now. It really does seem like this thread is turning into a rant. Maybe people who want to discuss Verizons proposed opening of the GPS in the 1st 1/2 of 2009 can make another thread. That thread could serve as a listing of the latest news releases regarding that topic. This would help organize the threads better and make it a lot easier for people to keep up them.

In reference to M Moogle's post, would it be possible to make a .cab file that will open these programs in succession? Considering that this seems like a timing issue maybe the .cab can be programmed in such a way that the user can input different time delays between the time where one program open and another. Once the exact time sequence is figured out, someone can try to figure out what is going on behind the scenes which is allowing the correct communication to occur between the GPS chip and the programs.

This is just a thought, unfortunately I have no experience with programming with WinMo. However, maybe someone who does can put something like this together so that those who own an omnia can play around with the timing sequence and post what works for them.

I think M Moogle's discussion about timing has to do with the sequence in which the apps are opened. I have duplicated his results and they are promising. There still lies an issue with decryption as the coordinates jump around. Lastnight I saw my exact location, parts of Antartica, and some where in the mideast all in fairly rapid succession. Google maps actually rendered each location.

[Guest Doc007]

I think M Moogle's discussion about timing has to do with the sequence in which the apps are opened. I have duplicated his results and they are promising. There still lies an issue with decryption as the coordinates jump around. Lastnight I saw my exact location, parts of Antartica, and some where in the mideast all in fairly rapid succession. Google maps actually rendered each location.

Glad to here that you were able to duplicate the results. I agree that the decryption needs to be worked out, were you able to find any patterns in your GPS output where the correct GPS coordinated came out. I know this might be a crude method, but if a program could be written to parse out the bad coordinates we maybe able to get something that would work. Of course, this is dependent on how often you see your correct coordinates come up amongst all the garbage GPS data.

ps It might also be a good idea to turn off the wifi on the phone when testing since google can sometimes aquire decent location data via wifi router signals.

[Guest krelvinaz]

In reference to M Moogle's post, would it be possible to make a .cab file that will open these programs in succession? Considering that this seems like a timing issue maybe the .cab can be programmed in such a way that the user can input different time delays between the time where one program open and another.

Cab files just load programs and settings, they don't effect how they are executed. Once a cab file loads what it loads, it does not run again. You would then need to run whatever app it loaded which is the same issue as before.

You would need to write an app that opens the various other apps in some sort of order to do what you are talking about.

The solution is going to come from someone who has programming skills to build an application to do what is needed. It needs to perform the same tasks that gpstest does opening the channel to the GPS chip and then pass that information continously while running for other applications to make use of it.

gpstest simply shows that it is possible but is not the app needed to make this work.

[Guest rapcon]

Glad to here that you were able to duplicate the results. I agree that the decryption needs to be worked out, were you able to find any patterns in your GPS output where the correct GPS coordinated came out. I know this might be a crude method, but if a program could be written to parse out the bad coordinates we maybe able to get something that would work. Of course, this is dependent on how often you see your correct coordinates come up amongst all the garbage GPS data.

ps It might also be a good idea to turn off the wifi on the phone when testing since google can sometimes aquire decent location data via wifi router signals.

Here is something that I did and I need to try again, but I setup gpsserver as per the instructions in the threads above, then copied gpstest into that folder and renamed it gpssvr.exe. I then ran google maps, the gpsapi.dll called the renamed gpstest and started the process. Then all you would need to do is return to google maps. I believe that worked a little better as I recall to time the sequence of opening apps. I'll try here in a moment and report results or lack thereof.

[Guest rapcon]

Here is something that I did and I need to try again, but I setup gpsserver as per the instructions in the threads above, then copied gpstest into that folder and renamed it gpssvr.exe. I then ran google maps, the gpsapi.dll called the renamed gpstest and started the process. Then all you would need to do is return to google maps. I believe that worked a little better as I recall to time the sequence of opening apps. I'll try here in a moment and report results or lack thereof.

Now I remember what happen. Google maps calls the renamed gpstest, I switched back to google, however it could not find any Sats. Then it starts to report the gpstest initialization error.

[Guest krelvinaz]

I think you are going to find that GPStest is not part of the solution. It shows that access is possible but any working solution will be done without GPStest in the mix. GPStest is just a test app.

The GPSsvr is supposed to do what GPStest does talking to the chip on its own and is designed to then keep running to keep the process alive.

Obviously something is different between what other devices have and what the i910 has that is causing GPSsvr to not do what it is supposed to do.

[Guest rapcon]

Now I remember what happen. Google maps calls the renamed gpstest, I switched back to google, however it could not find any Sats. Then it starts to report the gpstest initialization error.

One last observation: Setup gpsserver with gpsapi in the google directory, install the app gpstest that is freeware from from the web, set it to auto, and 38400, when it states gps starting, minimize the app, open google maps and it should find Sats. I can consistently duplicate this result. Google will occasionally render my exact location then the map goes away due to erroneous data. For now until a solution comes about, I have purchased a qstarz 890 mini bluetooth gps receiver, sirf 66 channels. I can hang it on my belt and it still finds 5 or more sats. the device is 1/4 inch thick, 1.8 inchs long, and perhaps 1 inch wide. Does everything I hope my omnia will do on its own one day.

[Guest rapcon]

I think you are going to find that GPStest is not part of the solution. It shows that access is possible but any working solution will be done without GPStest in the mix. GPStest is just a test app.

The GPSsvr is supposed to do what GPStest does talking to the chip on its own and is designed to then keep running to keep the process alive.

Obviously something is different between what other devices have and what the i910 has that is causing GPSsvr to not do what it is supposed to do.

I agree wholeheartedly. But tinkering is just about as hot as a Dallas cheerleader.

[Guest jpldrummer]

ok .. been trying to get the GPSTest working, just get the whole 'can't init GPSSec' message. What should the settings in the External GPS applet be? I do have some experience with embedded and mobile programming, and am po'ed at V not getting me a satisfactory answer and have a few days left before returning this thing.

If I can see this app working (and small as it is), I can do some playing around here and see what I can get moving.

Thanks

[Guest rapcon]

ok .. been trying to get the GPSTest working, just get the whole 'can't init GPSSec' message. What should the settings in the External GPS applet be? I do have some experience with embedded and mobile programming, and am po'ed at V not getting me a satisfactory answer and have a few days left before returning this thing.

If I can see this app working (and small as it is), I can do some playing around here and see what I can get moving.

Thanks

If you are seeing that error, soft reset your device, then run again. It takes perhaps up to a minute or more before it gives you an indication it is working. When you run multiple instances of the app you get that error. If you have mobile prog experience, get a hex editor and open gpstest and see if you see anything there. You can also open it in notepad to get an idea of what it is doing.