New Orange UK GPRS Tarriffs

[Guest Bazz]

Regarding the Orange data charges, It's not like they are 10 times the price of other networks. Stop punishing them coz they were nice enough to give you a cheap deal to begin with. That's the way prices come down - competition. At the minute Orange is roughly in line with competition. Having non using days is stupid. I'm never using my phone until Orange provide unlimited free calls and texting for a fiver a month. While I'm at it I'm gonna use this knife here to cut off my nose - that'll spite my face.

Also you WILL be using GPRS a lot less after the woo facter has worn off.

As to the MMS. Not convinced yet. Handy for the e-mail thing and for the occasional message, but it's slow damn slow I don't think I'll be using it much.

[Guest Kal-el]

£5pm for unlimited calls and txt... WOW... is that an OVP tarrif? ;)

[Guest pete1312]

http://www.orange.co.uk/business/products/...espv/terms.html

The above link contains the FULL terms of Orange's Promotional SPV GRPS Bundle offer (an extract of which has been previously posted above).

Basically this states £6 per month for UNLIMITED use till 30/04/03, subject to a "fair usage policy", which is further defined as being 10MB per month.

Before anyone starts to worry prematurely about exceeding the 10MB, they further state that they "reserve the right to request that subscribers exceeding the limits set out below (above) reduce their usage".

"Orange may at its discretion remove the Promotional Data Service from your account and refuse to allow reconnection to this service".

In other words: You will NOT be charged for anything extra up to 30th April, unless Orange have specifically SHOUTED at you, i.e. pre-warned you individually!

Back to my point post 30th April, as already posted earlier in this thread:

1) I bought my SPV direct from Orange Web/Phone Sales Dept.

2) It was a condition of my purchase that I subscribed to the "SPV Promotion Bundle".

3) I was happy to accept the deal, and my phone was duly received (albeit after a 2 week delay).

4) I accepted their word that: "At the end of the promotional period you will automatically be changed onto an equal or lower priced GPRS bundle with a megabyte cap".

Back therefore to my previous post: My definition of an EQUAL bundle would be £6 for 10MB per month. My definition of a LOWER PRICED bundle would be £5.99 (or less) for 10MB per month!!

Apparently (judging by other posts), I seem to have a different grasp of the English language to other (admittedly far more experienced techno aware) contributors to this site.

I just hope this matter does not have to go before the real Judges of our Courts (and therein lies many more tales)!

I for one will protest LOUDLY if I don't continue to get 10MB for £6!

(Sorry for shouting - I think this site is great - just hope that my SPV (and Orange) eventually (after UK Update) live up to my expectations of it/them)!

[Guest mattat]

I have to say that I think most courts would agree with Orange on the wording of their terms and conditions. The current pack is called a promotional pack and as such indicates that there is a special deal. Therefore when they say a equal or lower priced tariff they mean in terms of cost. The key point in the Terms and Conditions is this:

The GPRS Bundle selected will be based on your usage throughout the promotion and the associated costs of our available GPRS Bundles at the time of migration, for the avoidance of doubt the chosen GPRS Bundle will not exceed the current monthly charge of the Promotional Data Service

So I take this to mean that they are promising to put you on the tariff that will give you a similar amount of GPRS usage to that which you have been using up till that point, subject to a maximum cost of £6 a month - i.e. the highest bundle that they can put you on that will not cost more than £6 a month.

[Guest Bazz]

http://www.orange.co.uk/business/products/...espv/terms.html

The above link contains the FULL terms of Orange's Promotional SPV GRPS Bundle offer (an extract of which has been previously posted above).

4) I accepted their word that: "At the end of the promotional period you will automatically be changed onto an equal or lower priced GPRS bundle with a megabyte cap".

Back therefore to my previous post: My definition of an EQUAL bundle would be £6 for 10MB per month. My definition of a LOWER PRICED bundle would be £5.99 (or less) for 10MB per month!!

Apparently (judging by other posts), I seem to have a different grasp of the English language to other (admittedly far more experienced techno aware) contributors to this site.

Apparently you do: "At the end of the promotional period you will automatically be changed onto an equal or lower priced GPRS bundle with a megabyte cap". WITH A MEGABYTE CAP!!! You got that? How can they charge you £6 for 10MB when there is A MEGABYTE CAP!!. I make myself clear?

I just hope this matter does not have to go before the real Judges of our Courts (and therein lies many more tales)!

I for one will protest LOUDLY if I don't continue to get 10MB for £6!

Oh come on! Every couple of weeks I hear about people threatening to sue MS/Orange/HTC/Carphone Warehouse/Their mothers/GOD for not giving them something for nothing. Do you know how many people go through with that? I'm gonna guess none. There was a hilarious post on the MS newsgroup about a guy saying he was going to seek legal account in a week if MS/Orange didn't remove certification from his phone. A week later an MS guy asked how his legal action was going and he sheepishly admitted that he hadn't looked into it further.

I would love for GPRS to be cheaper, but Orange aren't cheating us at the moment and won't be after April...

Barry

[Guest Gorskar]

Yes you are right. We can't reasonably expect Orange to give us GPRS at a price we would like. They are perfectly within their rights to charge what they want for it.

Doesn't change the fact that I will be cancelling GPRS come the end of april.

[Guest pete1312]

Bazz wrote:

Apparently you do: "At the end of the promotional period you will automatically be changed onto an equal or lower priced GPRS bundle with a megabyte cap". WITH A MEGABYTE CAP!!! You got that? How can they charge you £6 for 10MB when there is A MEGABYTE CAP!!. I make myself clear?

[Guest Bazz]

Ah see what you mean. I reckon they'd just say "a cap" rather than "a megabyte cap".

I'm reading it as you will be charged £6 or less, depending how you much you used it. Either way you're bundle will be 1 Mb at most.

This is covering themselves in case when you used 20Mb a month (for example) cause it was unlimited, but really wouldn't use this much if you had to pay for it and therefore don't want to be automatically placed on the most expensive tarif. I'm in this situation at the mo.

I'm also reading the "equal" bit as equal priced (not equal value). As mattat points out - it's a promotional bundle not a standard bundle so expecting the same price kinda stops it being a special promotion!

Still this is only my interpretation - that's why they have lawyers for this sort of stuff!

Either way they said they'd write to inform us of what tarif they've choosen for us so yeah, you're right, let's wait and see.

Barry

P.S. The easiest way to do quotes is to click the Quote button on the top right of a post you want to quote, rather than clicking the Post Reply button. You'll soon see exactly how to do it.

P.P.S. Well done on taking the higher ground and not screaming back at me - I can get kinda blunt when I don't agree with someone, sorry... ;-)

[Guest pete1312]

Thanks Bazz.

I was just trying to make sure that my own 2p worth was clear!

PS: I've also received a PM from awarner explaining how to use quotes.

Pete

[Guest EGAN]

I think a lot of SPV users will be cutting off the GPRS service after 31st MArch 2003 especially at that price.

Petition to Orange is needed I think

:evil:

[Guest mattat]

I don't really want to repeat what has been said before, but I agree that a petition would:

1) Have little effect - as many people as there are who visit this forum, in terms of the total people who would sign a petition we would be of little concern to orange.

2) Actually hurt us in other causes. While we complain about bugs in the phone/software, we are making a legitimate complaint about a phone that we bought not working as it should. If we then complain that the prices are too high for GPRS when it was fairly clear that this would happen when we got the phone we run a significant risk of simply being taken for a group of people who are just complaining that they aren't being given things for free.

In the end it is simple market forces that will force Orange to change the price. If enough people do stop using GPRS then EVENTUALLY this will cause Orange to rethink its strategy as it will not be making money. I'm not suggesting that people boycott GPRS to bring down prices, but instead am simply saying that if you think the price is too high and that you won't pay it then fine stop using GPRS, but until the market changes sufficiently this will have very little effect on Oranges prices.

Matt

[Guest Bazz]

Couldn't agree more!

[Guest DJ WATTS]

Originally posted by jtsaint:  Good luck, it says comparatively priced. Well there are tariffs there which are less than six pounds so I guess you are going to find it difficult.

How are the lower prices comparable? Sure there are packeges cheaper but they dont offer a 10mb limit do they now?

GPRS 1 £2.00 1 mb

GPRS 2 £4.00 2 mb

GPRS 4 £8.00 4 mb

GPRS 7 £15.00 7 mb

GPRS 15 £25.00 15 mb

GPRS 30 £40.00 30 mb

Even the 7Mb limit is £15, how does this compare to our £6 10Mb limit?

Originally posted by pete1312:  My definition of comparable pricing after 30th April is £6 for 10MB per month. What is Orange's definition?

My view exactly, maybe they are using some sort of experimental logic different to our own.

This way on £6 month 10Mb LIMIT it would be "comparable" to the tarrif we are on now because it wont have have unlimited like we have now so its comparable.

I can live with 10Mb a month @ £6 with the unlimited Mb option taken away.

There are three ways to look at all this comparable situation we have at the moment:

1. £6 Price a month

2. 10Mb Limit a month

3. both Price and *Mb Limit a month

The problem lies if you start to look at either of the situation of price or 10Mb limit a month and just compare one of them a month it doesnt really compare now at all so the only way to look at it is to compare the both of them but the problem here is the packages Orange will be doing do not compare at all.

And ive not even mentioned the actual speeds we get which is to say the least, snail pace. You get more value for money and faster speeds on 56k.

oooops /me looks at the contract terms posted by someone here and notices 1Mb limit montioned! :cry: ;) lol

What a waste of my banter and i guess ive got my wires crossed but dont think i was the only one here that has misread the whole situation...

Would we still not have a case to complain and maybe squeeze the £6 month 10Mb limit from them as the whole situation is at best a bit misleading?

Oh well i guess im just going to not use the internet on the phone then so dam you Orange!! :evil:

Would the 1Mb limit be fine to use with MSN Messenger all month and just Messenger that is?

[Guest Big Ron - No Longer a Mem]

"Funny you should mention that, but two days ago I did get a free lunch.

Me and 2 other guys were the last people eating in the university cafe before it closed, and one of the guys who works there came up to us and gave us a bag of baguettes, which they would have otherwise not been able to keep.

So I kept some of them in my fridge, and what do you know - the next day = a free lunch!"

There's a little bit of over-simplistic logic in there. Ask yourself a few basic questions: who paid for the rolls? The canteen. Where did they get the money to pay for them? From profit they made from their customers - i.e. YOU. EVERY time you buy a roll from them, part of the price you pay recoups the cost of the rolls that they usually throw away. If they sell for a quid each, it LOOKS like you got the discards for free. Appearances can be misleading: every previous item you've bought there included a penny or two to cover the cost of discards. Alternatively, the canteen is about to go broke. Canteens are a sore point with 156: There's a subsidised one at the Orange building across the road. The many who work the noon-8 shift start their first break at 2pm... which is when the canteen closes!

[Guest pete1312]

DJ Watts wrote: "

oooops DJ WATTS looks at the contract terms posted by someone here and notices 1Mb limit montioned! :cry: ;) lol"

(Sorry - but I guess I've still not fully got the hang of using quotes) :oops:

Read up again DJ Watts! Which authority ever confirmed 1Mb limit?

I still maintain £6 for 10Mb pm would be "comparable"

[Guest DJ WATTS]

FragMeister wrote:  Just incase of difficulties, I have kept a copy of the "terms" of the SPV promotional pack.  

Here is the exact wording:  

the SPV pack  

The purchase of the SPV phone is subject to connection to the SPV promotional pack. It provides unlimited web browsing, email and access to a great range of information and entertainment services (terms and conditions apply) and costs £6 per month on top of your existing Service Plan. The pack can be purchased until 31st March 2003 and runs until 30th April 2003. At the end of the promotional period you will automatically be changed onto an equal or lower priced GPRS bundle with a megabyte cap.  

Based on this wording, I guess that we will all be moved automatically onto the 2Mb tariff.

The link to these terms are here pete1312

http://shop.orange.co.uk/spv_pack_popup.htm

Sorry i didnt quote the actual poster pete1312, but was a bit naffed off when i read the terms!!

Basically they are saying that after the 30th April you will be moved from the tarrif to a 1Mb cap and for the same price we are paying now.

Although they do mention unlimited in the pack we get now and then move on to saying the comparable thingie but really its not comparable and they are just saying/meaning you will get this package and then get this one which of course is not comparable as there is no unlimited access.

[Guest Raify]

I presume that when the promotion ends, and everyone will have to keep a close eye on their mb usage that Orange will be expecting us to pay out more hard-earned for the GPRS counter software!

I can't believe that they expecting you to pay for a specific amount of data, and yet to find out how much you've used, you have to pay extra (for something that should've been included in the phone)

anyway, rant ends. I don't think i'll be using much more than 1 or 2mb once it ends. So orange have successfully reduced their revenue from me 3 fold!

[Guest Bazz]

I still maintain £6 for 10Mb pm would be "comparable"

And I still maintain that that ain't the point! For a start it says "equal or lower priced GPRS bundle" not "comparable". That's equal or lower priced, not equal or lower value, so £6 or less.

It's a promotional offer. A promotional offer implies better than usual! How is it promotional if it's just normal?

GPRS may be over priced but we don't have a case to argue from this from the £6 unlimited bundle point of view.

[Guest Gorskar]

And I still maintain that that ain't the point! For a start it says "equal or lower priced GPRS bundle" not "comparable". That's equal or lower priced, not equal or lower value, so £6 or less.

It's a promotional offer. A promotional offer implies better than usual! How is it promotional if it's just normal?

GPRS may be over priced but we don't have a case to argue from this from the £6 unlimited bundle point of view.

Agreed.

I wasn't expecting it to be as cheap as this after the offer ends.

I was hoping that it wouldn't be as expensive as they are currently proposing, but theres not a lot I can do about it except cease my GPRS. (which I will do)

Orange don't owe me or anyone low priced GPRS.

Like mattat says, market forces are the only thing that's going to influence oranges prices (Unless they are forced to reduce prices by OFCOM).

Canteens are a sore point with 156: There's a subsidised one at the Orange building across the road. The many who work the noon-8 shift start their first break at 2pm... which is when the canteen closes!

Bad luck mate. It looks like you can't get a lunch at all, let alone a free lunch.

[Guest DJ WATTS]

Can we actually get rid of the GPRS altogether after 30th April and just pay our line rental etc as i dont think it will be wort it and as you may get a very large bill at the end of the month and i'm not willing to take the risk.

Far too tempting to have a quick browse.

£6 1Mb month=rubbish

Would Orange let me do this and maybe if we could we should all do it and then this will force them to reduce the prices eventually as they would be losing money as there would be no takers to there pathetic service and they would have to lower the prices to attract the customers back. Good idea? Sounds better than the petition of complaint.

[Guest Bazz]

Yup, if you want.

However do note that it ain't 1Mb for £6. The bundle conditions state it will be £6 a month or less - currently the lowest package is £2 for 1Mb (and £3 for each Mb thereafter). Still too much maybe, but a step in the right direction...

[Guest FragMeister]

We all seem to be speculating and reading many different things into the wording of what Orange will say is going to happen at the end of March when the Promo Period ends.

This may sound silly, but has anyone thought of actually calling Orange and asking them for clarification on what will happen?!?! Perhaps Orange themselves have not yet decided, so deliberately left the door slightly open by making the terms ambiguous - or so it would seem considering the number of alternative explanations of the terms posted in this thread!

[Guest Big Ron - No Longer a Mem]

"This may sound silly, but has anyone thought of actually calling Orange and asking them?"

Just DON'T try asking 156! The new tariffs got brought in a week early because they were leaked - first we heard about it was a phonecall asking for "more details" about something that was news to most of us! We know what we're told by O. That's ALL we know. "Anything is is not supported, and speculation is discouraged."

[Guest pete1312]

http://www.orange.co.uk/business/products/orangespv/terms.html

The above link contains the FULL terms of Orange's Promotional SPV GRPS Bundle offer (an extract of which has been previously posted above).

Sorry to repeat myself (and sorry also if I havn't got the hang of actually quoting previous posts yet)! I wasn't intending to ever post to this thread again, as I feel that I have already contributed my 2p worth. However, a private email I received this evening from another member has prompted my further response for the benefit (or ignorance) of all.

I've repeated my link to the "Orange SPV Pack" terms as above simply to prove that:

a) I've read them;

;) I know this link works. (Other links posted on this thread do not)!

(ok, sorry! I appreciate you may have to copy & paste it) :oops:

The following is written specifically in reply to the person who emailed me, but some of you may hopefully benefit from it:

The main point of my previous postings was simply to disagree with folks who thought “a megabyte cap” = “a ONE megabyte cap”!

I did not (and still do not) agree that any court of law in UK/Europe would uphold that “a”, (as phrased) = “1”.

Following on from there as to what we may reasonably expect Orange to give us is another matter, i.e. what exactly does the following mean? :

“At the end of the promotional period you will automatically be changed onto an equal or lower priced GPRS bundle with a megabyte cap.”

What is their definition of “equal”?

What is their definition of “bundle”?

Etc; etc!

Whilst I appreciate that the initial “Orange SPV Pack” is a “Promotional” Pack, what does “Promotional” actually mean? (Obviously many things to many people judging by other posts on MoDaCo).

In my humble opinion “promotional” means an incentive to help get the ball rolling!

OK. The ball is now rolling, but some SPV users seem to me as if they would prefer to score an “own goal” rather than put it in the “opposition’s” net!

At the end of the day (14 days prior to 30th April), it remains to be seen what “…. and the associated costs of our available GPRS Bundles at the time of migration, ….” will actually mean!

Having “kicked off” with a promotion which gives UNLIMITED usage for £6 per month (albeit partially qualified by some “fair usage” bits contained in the “terms” and further waffly bits depending upon where you bought your SPV and who told you exactly what etc), what’s wrong with me maintaining that a 10MB CAP for £6 per month is reasonable to expect?

Quite frankly, I’m not overly bothered personally. My first monthly bill showed I had used 2.2043 Megabytes. If I can cut that down to 2Mb in future, then on currently published Orange Tariffs (non-promotional), that would cost me £4 per month! (incl VAT or excl VAT)??

Several people have used the term "comparable" or "comparatively priced", including me :oops:

I know I picked up that terminolgy from this thread, i.e. yourselves, not from what I read in the Orange SPV Pack terms. I therefore accept that I should not have used that terminology (unless someone can give me a definitive source of it) :!:

Over and out. I think I’ve spent more than enough time on this topic.

[Guest DJ WATTS]

The main point of my previous postings was simply to disagree with folks who thought “a megabyte cap” = “a ONE megabyte cap”!

Now i see what you mean. I was under the idea of it being 1MB cap as in megabyte cap but now i understand/missread it so that the actual "megabyte cap" is NOT stated in the terms because it just mentions there will be a megabyte cap but no mention of the limit on what that will be so therefore i am with you pete1312 on this one now.

So getting back on track of things comparable is not what they are offering at present so it needs to be 10Mb cap.