How can I stop AT&T from seeing what phone I have?

[Guest mx597turbo]

Is there any way to block AT&T from seeing what phone I have? For example, I had a razr. I bought a Blackjack 2 on ebay. Now the AT&T wireless page shows I'm using a Blackjack 2. Is there any way to stop this?

Edited June 24, 2009 by mx597turbo

[Guest tobbbie]

No you can't. The device is identified by the IMEI ("Serial Number") and this can be retrieved by the network. The extended version of the IMEI, the IMEISV carries also the SW Version of your device, but only in very rough coding. The vendor decides if the SV goes up or not when supplying an update of the firmware. Google for IMEI to learn more about it.

[Guest mx597turbo]

So then there is no way of either blocking/masking my IMEI or changing it?

[Guest bene elim]

there is, but it's quite illegal :D

[Guest tobbbie]

Why would anyone want to do this? If you are a legitimate owner there is no reason to hide which device you are using. Some network services (like MMS) may be optimized for your device type depending on the IMEI. So if you supply a fake one you may be excluded from network services, receive incompatible data or worst case they will not allow you any services.

And it is illegal - like changing the chassis-number of your car.

[Guest ronaldb3]

Why would anyone want to do this? If you are a legitimate owner there is no reason to hide which device you are using. Some network services (like MMS) may be optimized for your device type depending on the IMEI. So if you supply a fake one you may be excluded from network services, receive incompatible data or worst case they will not allow you any services.

And it is illegal - like changing the chassis-number of your car.

Hi tobbie,

Why - because AT&T thinks that if you have a pda type phone, you will have a lot of data usage and try to put you on a higher $$ data plan. Even if a lower $$ plan will work for you.

Ron...

[Guest tobbbie]

Hi tobbie,

Why - because AT&T thinks that if you have a pda type phone, you will have a lot of data usage and try to put you on a higher $$ data plan. Even if a lower $$ plan will work for you.

Ron...

Well then ignore the request if they suggest to do this. They cannot do it without you agree to it, or? I mean that actually it is still YOU that decides which dataplan you want to use, or? If a dataplan covers a ceratin amount of MB-volume and you get beyond it, they will charge you for that - so probably they may make more money if you are on a small dataplan.

[Guest ronaldb3]

Well then ignore the request if they suggest to do this. They cannot do it without you agree to it, or? I mean that actually it is still YOU that decides which dataplan you want to use, or? If a dataplan covers a ceratin amount of MB-volume and you get beyond it, they will charge you for that - so probably they may make more money if you are on a small dataplan.

Hi tobbie,

I agree with you that your take sounds very logical. :D

Unfortunately I have heard that it is not true and that AT&T will put you on their "pda data" plan (as I stated above). :D

My phone still shows up on their site as the cheap one I bought from them first while waiting for my Omnia, probably because my Omnia is not in their US database, so their rule hasn't hit me yet. I am always careful what I say when I call them.

It is not a request, it's their rule (based erroneously on the assumption that anyone with a pda phone will use a lot of data time -wrong!) . I do not know how much success one would have in arguing your case. I might as I now have a history of very low data usage (I use my wifi connection whenever possible.). I really do not want to give any more detail info here. :D I'd rather stay below their radar and not have to argue with some AT&T a**ho** customer rep about it.

As to them making more money on a small data plan - some bean counter must have figured out that some people would just go to the max on that plan or something. who knows ;)

Maybe someone who has had something like this happen to them can jump in with a comment.

Ron...

Edited June 26, 2009 by ronaldb3

[Guest CybaCowboy]

No you can't. The device is identified by the IMEI ("Serial Number") and this can be retrieved by the network. The extended version of the IMEI, the IMEISV carries also the SW Version of your device, but only in very rough coding. The vendor decides if the SV goes up or not when supplying an update of the firmware. Google for IMEI to learn more about it.

The IMEI doesn't provide details about the software version, only the make, (generic) model and country of maufacture and/or use, all of which combined are the device's serial number.

Also, whilst service providers DO use the IMEI for customizing their services, anything to do with the Internet itself is usually done by different means... The device's "user agent".

See, the default Internet browser's "user agent" (the way it identifies itself to Web sites), provides SPECIFIC details about the device, including (but not limited to):

* Make

* Model

* Software version

* Browser name and version number

* Browser compatibility details

Usually, a service provider will use THESE details to offer a "device-optimized" portal, and sometimes other services...

This can be proved by changing the default Internet browser's user agent to match that of another device - as long as the user agent is identical to that of your old Motorola handset for example, you should see your service provider's Internet portal as you used to.

Of course, this usually involves editing system registry, so back-up your device first, be careful and if you're not sure what you're doing, leave it alone!

[Guest tobbbie]

Hi CybaCowboy,

...you are just complementing what I said, the IMEI does not provide the SW Version, while the extended IMEI SV does so (or could do that). See also here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imei

What you said about application level negotiation of features is something that comes on top and that be exploited for steering relevant functionality as well.

Edited July 31, 2009 by tobbbie

[Guest CybaCowboy]

Hi CybaCowboy,

...you are just complementing what I said, the IMEI does not provide the SW Version, while the extended IMEI SV does so (or could do that). See also here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imei

Yeah, I just found that out myself on Wikipedia.

To be honest, I've never heard of "IMEISV" and I'm pretty sure that the Australian carriers don't utilize this information... Until recently, I spent many years in the industry and the last time I checked, the GSM Association didn't specify this (the "SV" part) as a part of the IMEI.

It was a while ago that I last checked however, and I know with absolute certainty that most major telecommunications companies (globally) are making major changes to their software and infrastructure "behind the scenes" (3G/3.5G/UMTS networks being a primary reason for this), so my guess is that this is a recent addition to the IMEI specification... Something they've added since I've last checked, and in readiness for utilization in 3G/3.5G/UMTS (or newer) networks.

[Guest ronaldb3]

Yeah, I just found that out myself on Wikipedia.

To be honest, I've never heard of "IMEISV" and I'm pretty sure that the Australian carriers don't utilize this information... Until recently, I spent many years in the industry and the last time I checked, the GSM Association didn't specify this (the "SV" part) as a part of the IMEI.

It was a while ago that I last checked however, and I know with absolute certainty that most major telecommunications companies (globally) are making major changes to their software and infrastructure "behind the scenes" (3G/3.5G/UMTS networks being a primary reason for this), so my guess is that this is a recent addition to the IMEI specification... Something they've added since I've last checked, and in readiness for utilization in 3G/3.5G/UMTS (or newer) networks.

You guys are getting too tech for me to follow it all.

I do have another question maybe one of you can answer.

For a long time AT&T showed a picture on their site of the first cheap phone I got from them where they have an offer to upgrade. It has never shown the Omnia I have their sim card in for over a year now. Last week I was testing something on my wife's Moto with my sim card and it starting showing a picture of that phone on AT&T site. Ok with that.

I have since swapped sim back to Omnia but picture is still of wife's Moto.

So why does it not ever pick up that I have their sim in Omnia and show it or "unknown" or something???

Thanks,

Ron...

Edited July 31, 2009 by ronaldb3

[Guest tobbbie]

Due to the complexity of the underlaying architecture and the loose linkage of such presentation services to the GSM core network, such Internet services like you are using are usually never realtime or even close to that. Don't take this too important.

[Guest ronaldb3]

Due to the complexity of the underlaying architecture and the loose linkage of such presentation services to the GSM core network, such Internet services like you are using are usually never realtime or even close to that. Don't take this too important.

i r MF programmer and read IBM manuals - so above doesn't phase me. ;)

But I am still curious as to why AT&T doesn't pick up that I am connected with an "off" phone, as they should easily glean this from the IMEI info.

Any of your (and CC) ideas on this would be interesting to hear(read :) ).

Ron...

Edited July 31, 2009 by ronaldb3

[Guest CybaCowboy]

i r MF programmer and read IBM manuals - so above doesn't phase me. ;)

But I am still curious as to why AT&T doesn't pick up that I am connected with an "off" phone, as they should easily glean this from the IMEI info.

Any of your (and CC) ideas on this would be interesting to hear(read :) ).

Ron...

My guess is that rather than leaving a nasty, big "void" or "unknown device" on their site, it just defaults to the last "known" device... As I'm in Australia and rarely visit AT&T's Web site however, I know very little about the way in which their site looks or works - in other words, I'm only guessing and "taking a stab in the dark".

Hopefully someone in your neck-of-the-woods who's more familiar with the site will know the answer to your question however...

[Guest LisaM]

I have a question. Since At&t can detect what phone you have, if you switched to a different type of pda for example a blackberry. Will they switch your plan or will you have to call in to have that done?

[Guest ronaldb3]

I have a question. Since At&t can detect what phone you have, if you switched to a different type of pda for example a blackberry. Will they switch your plan or will you have to call in to have that done?

If you want so switch you should call them before they might call you. If you have a lot of usage, they might call you first. If you don't want to upgrade, lay low with little phone usage by using wifi when you can. Post back and let us know what happens. We're looking to hear from someone AT&T has changed automatically (maybe a account scan program?).

Ron...

[Guest tobbbie]

You are leaving me confused - can you explain how "data plans" work for AT&T?

How can an operator change YOUR plan - something you have contracted with the operator?

Edited August 11, 2009 by tobbbie

[Guest CybaCowboy]

If you want so switch you should call them before they might call you. If you have a lot of usage, they might call you first. If you don't want to upgrade, lay low with little phone usage by using wifi when you can. Post back and let us know what happens. We're looking to hear from someone AT&T has changed automatically (maybe a account scan program?).

Ron...

I don't know about over there, but here in Australia that is illegal - a service provider cannot change your agreement without you signing on the dotted line...

In certain circumstances however, they are legally entitled to place a temporary block on your account, though I've only ever heard of this happening twice and the people in question got a letter and a phone call first (plus the company didn't actually follow through on their threat).