charging via usb with a usb car adapter

[Guest rokster12]

Hi,

unfornuatly i don't find a way to get my omnia charging through my car to usb adapter.

i read many threads about this theme, but didn't find a solution.

so i hope maybe here someone has an idea.

it looks like you only can charge the omnia via the orignial usb cable, when either a active sync connection is established or a pc finds the omnia as a usb-storage.

if you just plug in the usb cable to a usb power source like the mentiond car adapter or power to usb adapter the omnia don't charge.

seems like the software need to find a running connection to change the omnia to charging mode.

i know from other windows mobile phone, that you can activate/deactive charging via usb. but then

the mpobile phone already charges on any usb source.

for example. when you turn in the pc and connect you omnia via usb. the omnia actually already gets power trough the usb port. but just start to charge, when the operating system booted up and the device was recogniced as usb storage or activesync phone.

am i wrong or is it just actually a matter of software. cuz the hardware(the cable) seem to be able to charge the omnia.

so there must be a way to charge the omnia on any usb source right? somehow there must be a way to "trick" the omnia to think that the usb is connected.

??

[Guest kav]

i dont think charging has anything to do with software, its all about the correct voltage and current on the usb port. it usually is 5V dc on usb ports i think.

as long as this amount of voltage goes in to the omnmia, it will charge, doesnt matter connected to a pc or not.

if u connect the omnia via usb to a pc wich has absolutely no operating system, just put the pc on and let it on the bootscreen stuck there and look at the omnia, it will charge.

it has something to do wih the usb in ur car. check the correct voltage and current like i mentioned.

[Guest [email protected]]

Actually I think I read somewhere the omnia requires 5.3v to charge which means unfortunately we are all stuck having to buy Samsung's chargers ;) not even Igo makes a universal charger yet.

[Guest dwallersv]

There are two power pins in the connector, one used by the AC adapter, the other via USB. The Omnia is finicky about this for some reason that (as an EE) I can't guess at that really makes much sense.

When +5V is present at the AC charger pin, the Omnia charges. Period. So long as the voltage stays above a spec'd value (I'm guessing it is somewhere between 4.5V-5V, thereabouts, which provides plenty of voltage to charge an LiION cell to its full-charge state of 4.35V).

USB, on the other hand, is a bit more complicated. Even with the same voltage -- exact same power source -- connected to the USB +5 pin, the omnia will only charge if it also detects some signal/voltage on the USB data pins that meets some threshold. So, you can have a perfectly acceptable voltage, and robust enough supply connected via the USB cable, and the Omnia will refuse to charge if the right signals are not present on the USB data pins.

I found this out by direct experience trying to get one of these to work:

It's a great concept, and once I got it working, I love it. It holds a 2200mAH 3.7V LiION battery. Comes with one -- I bought two more on the cheap from some online battery store. There's room for two in the zipper case -- one in the unit, and one in a spare slot. So, in addition to the 1440mAH battery in the phone, I have another 4400mAH with me most of the time (keep it in my car glovebox). Fits nicely in the pants pocket, and provides many hours of video watching while sitting in an airport or other boring locale.

Anyway, it didn't work out of the box. Not with the included cable, or the Samsung Omnia USB cable. Long story short, the problem was the fact that the battery unit didn't do anything with the USB data pins -- they were simply open (electrically). Had an extra AC adapter and USB cable, cut the connectors off, wired the connector from the AC adaptor to the USB cable's +5 and GND, plugged it in and it worked perfectly.

I don't have any idea what Samsung's trip is with all these extra hoops the system has to go through to recognize and accept power from USB as being a usable power source. It seems entirely unnecessary to me. There's no electrical/electronic reason for it.

Edited July 12, 2009 by dwallersv

[Guest Piemole]

I don't have any idea what Samsung's trip is with all these extra hoops the system has to go through to recognize and accept power from USB as being a usable power source. It seems entirely unnecessary to me. There's no electrical/electronic reason for it.

Sounds like a way to stop people using universal chargers and forcing them to buy the genuine Samsung one.

Pretty clever when you think about it but doesn't really help us when we want to get a spare charger on the cheap.

Does this mean that if we get a AC to USB plug and plug in a USB cable it wont charge still?

Something like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/USB-AC-Car-Chargers...93%3A2|294%3A50

And also how come the Samsung car charger works OK but others wont?

Edited July 16, 2009 by Piemole

[Guest new2city]

Sounds like a way to stop people using universal chargers and forcing them to buy the genuine Samsung one.

Pretty clever when you think about it but doesn't really help us when we want to get a spare charger on the cheap.

Does this mean that if we get a AC to USB plug and plug in a USB cable it wont charge still?

Something like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/USB-AC-Car-Chargers...93%3A2|294%3A50

And also how come the Samsung car charger works OK but others wont?

Actually, after frying my Omnia charging through adaptor capability and through a look of googling through the internet during the pass few days, I found out the following.

Comparing the OEM USB cables and the OEM adaptor cable, you will notice the following pin outs

1) OEM USB will charge our Omnia only if there is an active data connection.. CANNOT be used to charge at Universal USB adaptors/car chargers.

Pins 1 and Pin 2 are connected to 0V

Pins 16 and 17 are Data+ and Data-

Pin 18 is connected to 5V USB

- the rest are not used

2) OEM adaptor cable MEANT to be charge the phone

Pins 1 and 2 are connected to 0V

Pins 19 and 20 are connected to 5V

- the rest are not used.

So, if you want to have your Omnia charged by any UNIVERSAL USB adaptor/car chargers, you must make a modified version of cable 2, which is simply connect a male USB connector to the Samsung connector on cable 2.

I actually did the same thing as this guy

At first I was confused by him but when my cables arrived I noticed that the data cable is different from the OEM version that is, it has the pin outs

3) none OEM USB

Pins 1 and 2 are connected to 0V

Pins 16 and 17 are Data+ and Data-

Pins 18, 19 and 20 are connected to 5V

- the rest are not used.

any questions..? sorry, I am writing this half asleep..

[Guest dwallersv]

Guys, this is not complicated.

There are two +5V supply pins in the Omnia connector. One is used by the included domestic plug-in charger, the other is for USB connections.

The plug-in charger pin will always charge the Omnia if +5V is present. The USB pin will only charge the Omnia if +5V is present and there are valid voltages on the two differential USB data pins.

A USB cable that only connects USB +5 and GND, but leaves the data pins electrically open will not charge -- the Omnia will refuse to, despite the presence of +5V.

Here's the easiest, cheapest solution, if you've got moderate soldering skills: Get a two sets of mating male/female connectors that can handle 4 wires. Cut the USB cable that came with your omnia, and insert one pair of connectors. Cut the AC charger cable and insert the other connector pair. Make sure that you use the same pin positions on your 4-wire connectors for +5V and GND on both cables when attaching the connectors.

Now, you can easily put the AC charger connector on the USB cable when needed, and it will charge from USB no problem. You can easily put it back on the the AC charger when you need to.

Edited July 17, 2009 by dwallersv

[Guest new2city]

Guys, this is not complicated.

There are two +5V supply pins in the Omnia connector. One is used by the included domestic plug-in charger, the other is for USB connections.

The plug-in charger pin will always charge the Omnia if +5V is present. The USB pin will only charge the Omnia if +5V is present and there are valid voltages on the two differential USB data pins.

A USB cable that only connects USB +5 and GND, but leaves the data pins electrically open will not charge -- the Omnia will refuse to, despite the presence of +5V.

Here's the easiest cheapest solution, if you've got moderate soldering skills: Get a two sets of mating male/female connectors that can handle 4 wires. Cut the USB cable that came with your omnia, and insert one pair of connectors. Cut the AC charger cable and insert the other connector pair. Make sure that you use the same ping positions on your 4-wire connectors for +5V and GND on both cables when attaching the connectors.

Now, you can easily put the AC charger connector on the USB cable when needed, and it will charge from USB no problem. You can easily put it back on the the AC charger when you need to.

yup, that's what I did.. ;)

thanks for explaining it so MUCH better... I am now fully awake. But Samsung really make it hell with their custom connector, glad that it is no longer there in the new upcoming OMNIA's, although, what the hell, we need to buy them...

[Guest rokster12]

when it's just about a working data connection, isn't it possible some how to make the samsung think that there is a working data connection even when the omnia is just connected to a usb power source like the car adapter?

quote name='new2city' date='Jul 16 2009, 21:46' post='1040340']

yup, that's what I did.. :)

thanks for explaining it so MUCH better... I am now fully awake. But Samsung really make it hell with their custom connector, glad that it is no longer there in the new upcoming OMNIA's, although, what the hell, we need to buy them...

[Guest nossy_89]

If u want to charge it then u have to change the usb setting to mass storage. Then it will charge mate.

[Guest aceofrazgriz]

Just for the record, using the original data cable included with my i910, i've had the phone charge by plugging this cable into a USB port on a Kenwood car headunit. Its most often the cable thats the problem, it seems too many 3rd party cables won't charge the phone.

[Guest makk509]

After reading new2city and dwallersv's post explaining the problem this finally makes sense :-)

I had a think about the idea of cutting my OEM USB cable and the mains charger cable to fix this problem but decided there must be an adapter out there already that can do this for me without hacking my existing cables, and there is :-)

Samsung Omnia i900 Audio and Charger Adapter

http://mobile.brando.com.hk/samsung-omnia-...7c0704d003.html

Obviously this was designed to allow you to connect your earphones and charger at the same time but the key is that the Samsung plug on it is wired the same as the normal wall charger. i.e. it takes the 5v from the USB source and puts it on the pin that charges without the need for the data connections to be active.

I've previously tried several USB car charges using my OEM USB cable and none of them would charge my Omnia. With this adapter and a generic USB to mini USB cable (I had one left over from an old external card reader) all of the charges now work correctly!

I currently use the Venturi mini (http://www.myventuri.com/overview.aspx) to connect my handsfree, mp3 and Satnav to the car audio, it has a USB charge port on the side and with the cable and adapter I've mentioned, plugged between this and my phone I've driven for over 2 hours with my mp3 and Satnav working and finished the journey with my phone still fully charged.

I have no relationship with any of the companies mentioned above and it's taken me 6 months to find a solution to this problem but I finally have a setup that works :-)

Thanks again to new2city and dwallersv for helping me understand the actual problem.