Verizon pulling SMTP mail relaying - read this.

[Guest DeepBlueEditor]

This is going to be a redundant post until it gets made public in the news section but I wanted my fellow Omnia users to know about this as soon as possible so they can raise appropriate complaints directly to Verizon. Forum admins feel free to kill this if/when it comes out in the main news segment here and please pass this to other Verizon associated forums. This really bites.

I received a letter from Verizon this week explaining how Verizon will be discontinuing their SMTP email relaying service. In case you are not familiar with this terminology, this is the setting that allows users with Internet service through companies like RoadRunner to send outgoing email through to their accounts. In other words, we will be able to receive email from RoadRunner after August 29th but we will no longer be able to send the outgoing emails through Verizon's servers back through our RR accounts, and any other email service that needs you to be on your system at home (logged in from your home IP address).

This pretty much blows in my book and is another low blow to Verizon customers who are already forced to get a data package to even purchase some handsets, like my Omnia i910. The ability to send outgoing email through our normal servers, as if we were at our desks is a prime reason to get the data package. Ever tried to form and send an email using the web based interface from RoadRunner on a cell phone screen? Damn near impossible or at best, a nuisance. So, I urge everyone to argue with Verizon on this one. Why are we paying the large fees we are for services that are getting cut back? I know there is this lovely catch all phrasing in all contracts stating that the company you are signing up with has the right to change the contract at any time for any reason without notice or recourse. That language should be stricken from contracts by law in my book, or at least we should have the same rights to change the amount we pay for services at any time for no particular reason. I think that would be fair.

You can read all about this move at http://www.VerizonWireless.com/SMTP

As for me, I will not be signing up with Verizon after this contract term is up. They have killed off a vital function for us small business people. After all, what are we supposed to do without this function, use Gmail, Yahoo mail, Hotmail? On our cell handsets? How professional is that for us all to switch to [email protected] for example. I say write Verizon and register your complaint. It will fall on deaf ears but at least they might catch on when folks stop buying data plans and moving to another carrier.

Sean

Edited August 1, 2009 by DeepBlueEditor

[Guest Adrynalyne]

I'm rewriting this reply and putting it one way.

Business users should be on an exchange server, or they are at the mercy of other companies.

Period.

The ability to send outgoing email through our normal servers, as if we were at our desks is a prime reason to get the data package.

It will still be the case unless you have an SMTP server that requires you to be on their network to authenticate. If you are using Verizon's SMTP relaying service, then you were never sending it through your normal servers, you were sending it through the Verizon SMTP.

How professional is that for us all to switch to [email protected]

Its not. [email protected] is, though, and the hosting service is most likely to give you an SMTP server you can use on other services.

I think you are confused on how relaying works, but if you feel the need to boycott Verizon...by all means, go for it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_mail_relay

Edited August 1, 2009 by Adrynalyne

[Guest DeepBlueEditor]

I'm rewriting this reply and putting it one way.

Business users should be on an exchange server, or they are at the mercy of other companies.

Period.

As I understand it folks like me that use RR cannot send any outgoing mail. If this is incorrect please explain the part I am missing. I have no RR address or port information that will allow me to respond to an incoming email after this happens and in fact it is blocked as I understand it unless I send outgoing from my IP address. If there is another way please let me know. I'll withdraw my issue but this seems like an insurmountable issue to me. Is it possible to use outgoing gmail, yahoo or hotmail as the outgoing resource? If that happens, when folks hit "reply" where would it go?

Maybe I'm confused but this seems like a big deal to me.

Also, us small business freelance types like me don't have exchange servers hanging around. : )

Edit - and I use a mail forwarding system already. They don't supply, as far as I know a SMTP service for bypassing the issue.

Edited August 1, 2009 by DeepBlueEditor

[Guest DeepBlueEditor]

Just reread your update. Understood but, I was not sending "through" RR, mis-communication on my part. I was relaying through VZW, the part they are killing off and yes, all RoadRunner users are required to be logged in via their modems at home or the office IP to send mail. It's not just a few of us, this is a common thing.

I wonder if the ISPs are actually refusing to allow relaying from the wireless companies?

Either way, what now for all of us that need reliable communications for our home based freelance businesses? There are a bunch of us, and this is already on the forums at VZW. I am betting a lot of folks set this up some time ago and don't even realize they are using this to send outgoing emails that will stop going out after the 29th.

[Guest Adrynalyne]

As I understand it folks like me that use RR cannot send any outgoing mail. If this is incorrect please explain the part I am missing. I have no RR address or port information that will allow me to respond to an incoming email after this happens and in fact it is blocked as I understand it unless I send outgoing from my IP address. If there is another way please let me know. I'll withdraw my issue but this seems like an insurmountable issue to me. Is it possible to use outgoing gmail, yahoo or hotmail as the outgoing resource? If that happens, when folks hit "reply" where would it go?

Maybe I'm confused but this seems like a big deal to me.

Also, us small business freelance types like me don't have exchange servers hanging around. : )

Edit - and I use a mail forwarding system already. They don't supply, as far as I know a SMTP service for bypassing the issue.

A true hosting company, like goDaddy, does provide relaying.

Here is how relaying works in a very basic sense. I'm a little rusty, being out of the ISP support business for many years, but here goes.

If you are using RR (just a random example), they want to authenticate users who use their SMTP service. One way, is to accept it only from IP addresses on their network. Another, is to also check the from address and verify its a valid email address on the network. If you use their SMTP service on another provider, such as Verizon, then you will not be allowed access, and will get an error 5xx, which is a relaying denied error.

Apparently, Verizon had their email setup so that users could use their email accounts on any provider, to send/receive. They are shutting the SMTP server relaying down, so now you must be on their network to use their SMTP server.

Thats a far cry from what you are suggesting.

Edited August 1, 2009 by Adrynalyne

[Guest DeepBlueEditor]

Apparently, Verizon had their email setup so that users could use their email accounts on any provider, to send/receive. They are shutting the SMTP server relaying down, so now you must be on their network to use their SMTP server.

Thats a far cry from what you are suggesting.

So, what are we saying here after all this then. Come the 29th I'll still be able to send email outbound through VZW? If this is the case I apparently don't understand at all what they are cutting off. Take a look at the SMTP link above and let me know if I need to make any changes. As I understand it, my outgoing email will cease to go out after the 29th. If this is a misconception, I will post as much to the groups but, as I have been invested in setting up a small business over the past few years with the same email address and ISP, this still sounds on the surface like a major issue for me and the many other folks I know who have been forced by the economy to struggle with becoming freelancers.

It is not about getting a proper ISP or relay capable company involved, we are already set up and this is a change I shouldn't be forced into since this is a function of the service I bought a contract to use.

Anyway, if it keeps rolling after the 29th, cool. Until I know that I and a lot of others are now forced to look for alternatives and get them in place. Educate me if I'm wrong. I'm willing to learn.

S.

[Guest Adrynalyne]

So, what are we saying here after all this then. Come the 29th I'll still be able to send email outbound through VZW? If this is the case I apparently don't understand at all what they are cutting off. Take a look at the SMTP link above and let me know if I need to make any changes. As I understand it, my outgoing email will cease to go out after the 29th. If this is a misconception, I will post as much to the groups but, as I have been invested in setting up a small business over the past few years with the same email address and ISP, this still sounds on the surface like a major issue for me and the many other folks I know who have been forced by the economy to struggle with becoming freelancers.

It is not about getting a proper ISP or relay capable company involved, we are already set up and this is a change I shouldn't be forced into since this is a function of the service I bought a contract to use.

Anyway, if it keeps rolling after the 29th, cool. Until I know that I and a lot of others are now forced to look for alternatives and get them in place. Educate me if I'm wrong. I'm willing to learn.

S.

We will have to see. I don't know that the announcement specifically says whether you will need to be on the Verizon network, or whether the email needs to have a Verizon email address in the the From settings. The thing is, I still don't understand the problem. Many, if not most companies offering business email allow relaying. If its a problem using personal email for business reasons, well it was never designed for that. I understand the whole thing of trying to save a buck or two, but you need to accept the limitations as well. I just did some short searching via Google and business class email from RR does allow authentication across other services.

Make no mistake, if your email stops working for sending on the 29th, you should be upset at RoadRunner than Verizon. They are the ones who implemented the relaying block in the first place.

I can offer you one easy free alternative. Sign up for Hotmail/Live. You can setup your email to be checked through there, as well as change your reply-to addresses to what you want.

[Guest Adrynalyne]

This is also why Blackberry rules for email as well. BIS handles all this crap.

[Guest DeepBlueEditor]

We will have to see. I don't know that the announcement specifically says whether you will need to be on the Verizon network, or whether the email needs to have a Verizon email address in the the From settings. The thing is, I still don't understand the problem. Many, if not most companies offering business email allow relaying. If its a problem using personal email for business reasons, well it was never designed for that. I understand the whole thing of trying to save a buck or two, but you need to accept the limitations as well. I just did some short searching via Google and business class email from RR does allow authentication across other services.

Make no mistake, if your email stops working for sending on the 29th, you should be upset at RoadRunner than Verizon. They are the ones who implemented the relaying block in the first place.

I can offer you one easy free alternative. Sign up for Hotmail/Live. You can setup your email to be checked through there, as well as change your reply-to addresses to what you want.

Somehow we aren't on the same page. RR has had a relaying block since it's inception. RR has never allowed relaying hence the outgoing service from VZW that we have come to rely on. You are missing the point however about business email. I am part of a growing force of freelance video editors and film and video shooters. We rely on immediate communications no matter where in the world we are and that includes responding to folks asking questions about availability to shoot a commercial in Guam or a music video tomorrow night in Alaska. The point being, we aren't on any sort of business communications systems for email and most of us have no need to sign up for business class service with ISPs as it is such an unnecessary added expense. That means we rely on things like a company like Dotster (who I am with) to redirect email to [email protected] to my RR account. I need to be able to respond to an incoming email effortlessly from my handset when I get them. I have my handset check for incoming mail every 15 minutes.

If I have to cut and paste responses or respond via a web interface for my ISP or from a gmail or Yahoo account, that takes time to do and I need to keep moving.

So, if I respond through say gmail or Yahoo as my outgoing SMTP server, when someon hits "reply" it will likely go to that account, Gmail or Yahoo that is. I can fill in the "reply to" field and hopefully when someone hits reply it will go back through RR again but they will still see in the incoming address that their response is coming back to them via Gmail or Yahoo. Again, not necessarily a good thing but I suppose it will have to do.

S

Edited August 1, 2009 by DeepBlueEditor

[Guest Adrynalyne]

I understand your concerns, but Windows Mobile is designed for business users, and that includes email. It is still RR's fault that they are blocking relaying. Verizon provided the service for free, but unless you can find it in a contract somewhere, it was by their grace, and not a requirement.

So you are using dotster? Did you purchase email hosting with them?

http://www.dotster.com/resources/support/faq-email

How about forwarding your RR email to your [email protected] and check it via their servers?

[Guest bishop4142]

Simple question I have a gmail account that I receive on my Omnia .. will still still work after 8-29?

[Guest DeepBlueEditor]

So you are using dotster? Did you purchase email hosting with them?

http://www.dotster.com/resources/support/faq-email

How about forwarding your RR email to your [email protected] and check it via their servers?

I am with Dotster and have mail forwarding so my domain I registered with them has a "valid" email address that redirects any incoming email to [email protected] to my RR address. Outgoing mail does not go through Dotster in any way as far as I know. It's a one way street into my rr account from the professional email address of my domain. I'll go hit the faq there.

Again, my sole complaint now (I got over RR being the way they are years ago) is that we were told (and sold) that email is a possibility with all accounts including RR and they are killing off a part of the plan they sold me on. They are limiting their service they provided when I entered into the contract for the service so this is the issue for me. Sure RR is a corporate monster that won't allow SMTP relaying but they have always been that way so I can;t really blame them for the change VZW is making now to their service.

I'll go hit up the Dotster site to see if there is a way back into RR as a realy.

Sean

[Guest Adrynalyne]

Simple question I have a gmail account that I receive on my Omnia .. will still still work after 8-29?

Yes it will.

[Guest DeepBlueEditor]

According to Dotster they only do URL and email forwarding. They do not supply email as a service themselves nor do they support responding to emails via SMTP relay servers, etc. basically it is a one way street.

Now then, since I am able to forward the email to anyplace, I suppose I could have it forwarded to any email address including a Gmail address, etc. If Gmail's outbound SMTP servers will work from our cells then I may give that a go.

Still this means learing yet another email system and setup as I don;t now use Gmail as an email system. I hav an account that is accessed mostly for IM so I do have one. I guess I'll need to find a tutorial on hiow to set up Gmail on the Omnia now. Taking suggestions...

S.

[Guest DeepBlueEditor]

Holy cow, Gmail was super esy to set up once I remembered the login/password. Pulled the server names and everything without mew having to figure it out so that was cool. ZNow I have to get IM and MySpace, etc to stop archiving messages to that account. Logged in the first time and had 430+ old messages that were dupes of old MySpace messages and IM logs from Gchat.

I will work on swinging the Dotster mail forwarding to that account next and it should be finished. Still, what a pain.

S

[Guest Doc007]

According to Dotster they only do URL and email forwarding. They do not supply email as a service themselves nor do they support responding to emails via SMTP relay servers, etc. basically it is a one way street.

Now then, since I am able to forward the email to anyplace, I suppose I could have it forwarded to any email address including a Gmail address, etc. If Gmail's outbound SMTP servers will work from our cells then I may give that a go.

Still this means learing yet another email system and setup as I don;t now use Gmail as an email system. I hav an account that is accessed mostly for IM so I do have one. I guess I'll need to find a tutorial on hiow to set up Gmail on the Omnia now. Taking suggestions...

S.

http://www.google.com/support/mobile/bin/a...amp;topic=14299

[Guest bishop4142]

Yes it will.

THANKS!!!!

[Guest dwallersv]

A true hosting company, like goDaddy, does provide relaying.

Here is how relaying works in a very basic sense. I'm a little rusty, being out of the ISP support business for many years, but here goes.

If you are using RR (just a random example), they want to authenticate users who use their SMTP service. One way, is to accept it only from IP addresses on their network. Another, is to also check the from address and verify its a valid email address on the network. If you use their SMTP service on another provider, such as Verizon, then you will not be allowed access, and will get an error 5xx, which is a relaying denied error.

Apparently, Verizon had their email setup so that users could use their email accounts on any provider, to send/receive. They are shutting the SMTP server relaying down, so now you must be on their network to use their SMTP server.

Thats a far cry from what you are suggesting.

Yeah... I'm not seeing the outrage in this at all.

These services cost money to provide. Yahoo, where I host my domain, requires password authentication to send outgoing SMTP through their mail servers. Seems entirely reasonable and appropriate to me -- limiting the use of their servers to paying customers.

Now, it is true that us i910 owners are paying customers for Verizon, but nowhere in any contract, agreement, feature list, or anything else was I ever told that one of the services I was paying for was non-customers (which includes third-party email services) subsidized used of Verizon's servers.

Frankly, I'm not pleased with the idea that my payments to Verizon for the advertised services subsidizes non-customer access to their services and servers. I don't want to subsidize that. I don't ask my fellow Verizon customers to subsidize my access to Yahoo's servers -- I pay for that myself.

[Guest DeepBlueEditor]

Yeah... I'm not seeing the outrage in this at all.

These services cost money to provide. Yahoo, where I host my domain, requires password authentication to send outgoing SMTP through their mail servers. Seems entirely reasonable and appropriate to me -- limiting the use of their servers to paying customers.

...and so?

Now, it is true that us i910 owners are paying customers for Verizon, but nowhere in any contract, agreement, feature list, or anything else was I ever told that one of the services I was paying for was non-customers (which includes third-party email services) subsidized used of Verizon's servers.

Pretty sure they don't take the time to spell out any of the functions they provide, do they?

Frankly, I'm not pleased with the idea that my payments to Verizon for the advertised services subsidizes non-customer access to their services and servers. I don't want to subsidize that. I don't ask my fellow Verizon customers to subsidize my access to Yahoo's servers -- I pay for that myself.

I have no idea what you are talking about here. I am a paying customer and want continued access to a service that was present when I signed on for a 2 year contract. I would like access that I am paying for to an outbound Verizon mail server. Nothing to do with anyone who is not a paying VZW customer accessing any of their servers. I think you might be seeing this wrong somehow. Probaly the way I have been describing it so far.

Well, you folks are actually being less than helpful or sympathetic for the most part. Moving to another ISP, getting a new mail hosting company, using exchange, etc are all beside the point and an added expense on top of what I was already paying for. I have a service and they are removing a section of the service they are providing. It's really that simple. Pretty sure it doesn't exactly mention SMS or even that they will provide an specific services in the contract because nobody wants to spell that out because they have the ever present catch all part at the end of all contracts stating they can change the contract without telling you about it and that they can change the rates, etc at any time for any reason without your consent. Glad my work contracts aren't so loosely written.

I will toss in as a last observation in that I tried setting up my Gmail account today and while it works quite well with my i910 in and out, I can find no way on the phone to set the "reply to" address to be anything other than the account address. That is, while my incoming email might be to [email protected] (rerouted via mail forwarding through my domain registrar into my gmail account) if anyone responds to a mail I send them, it will only go to [email protected] (not my real address so don't bother). This is only going to further confuse people as they think they are responding to one address and will end up getting and sending email to 2 addresses. Again, not so cool. As I can't get the outgoing Gmail to set the reply to field, I can't very well use it either now for fear of getting folks confused about the 2 different addresses.

Gmail itself when using the web interface on a PC allows me to change the Reply To field but that only happens if originating from the web based gmail interface, and not if I send an outbound gmail from my handset.

So this is still not going to work well. I will need to include a line in my sig file now with a "mailto:" function so folks can correctly respond, again more confusion.

Oh well.

S.

[Guest DeepBlueEditor]

Wow, server triple posted this one... Mod, please feel free to kill of this and the following message.

S.

Edited August 3, 2009 by DeepBlueEditor

[Guest DeepBlueEditor]

Yeah... I'm not seeing the outrage in this at all.

These services cost money to provide. Yahoo, where I host my domain, requires password authentication to send outgoing SMTP through their mail servers. Seems entirely reasonable and appropriate to me -- limiting the use of their servers to paying customers.

...and so?

Now, it is true that us i910 owners are paying customers for Verizon, but nowhere in any contract, agreement, feature list, or anything else was I ever told that one of the services I was paying for was non-customers (which includes third-party email services) subsidized used of Verizon's servers.

Pretty sure they don't take the time to spell out any of the functions they provide, do they?

Frankly, I'm not pleased with the idea that my payments to Verizon for the advertised services subsidizes non-customer access to their services and servers. I don't want to subsidize that. I don't ask my fellow Verizon customers to subsidize my access to Yahoo's servers -- I pay for that myself.

I have no idea what you are talking about here. I am a paying customer and want continued access to a service that was present when I signed on for a 2 year contract. I would like access that I am paying for to an outbound Verizon mail server. Nothing to do with anyone who is not a paying VZW customer accessing any of their servers. I think you might be seeing this wrong somehow. Probaly the way I have been describing it so far.

Well, you folks are actually being less than helpful or sympathetic for the most part. Moving to another ISP, getting a new mail hosting company, using exchange, etc are all beside the point and an added expense on top of what I was already paying for. I have a service and they are removing a section of the service they are providing. It's really that simple. Pretty sure it doesn't exactly mention SMS or even that they will provide an specific services in the contract because nobody wants to spell that out because they have the ever present catch all part at the end of all contracts stating they can change the contract without telling you about it and that they can change the rates, etc at any time for any reason without your consent. Glad my work contracts aren't so loosely written.

I will toss in as a last observation in that I tried setting up my Gmail account today and while it works quite well with my i910 in and out, I can find no way on the phone to set the "reply to" address to be anything other than the account address. That is, while my incoming email might be to [email protected] (rerouted via mail forwarding through my domain registrar into my gmail account) if anyone responds to a mail I send them, it will only go to [email protected] (not my real address so don't bother). This is only going to further confuse people as they think they are responding to one address and will end up getting and sending email to 2 addresses. Again, not so cool. As I can't get the outgoing Gmail to set the reply to field, I can't very well use it either now for fear of getting folks confused about the 2 different addresses.

Gmail itself when using the web interface on a PC allows me to change the Reply To field but that only happens if originating from the web based gmail interface, and not if I send an outbound gmail from my handset.

So this is still not going to work well. I will need to include a line in my sig file now with a "mailto:" function so folks can correctly respond, again more confusion.

Oh well.

S.

[Guest DeepBlueEditor]

Server screwed up and multiple posted. Moderators, please delete this one.

S.

Edited August 3, 2009 by DeepBlueEditor

[Guest DeepBlueEditor]

http://www.google.com/support/mobile/bin/a...amp;topic=14299

Understood but this is for an Active Sync which requires you to be at our computer and sync with the Omnia connected. This is not convenient for use while out and about, as I am currently able to do. You can setup Gmail to use the normal connections and data easily enough. In fact, it found most of the settings automatically when I set it up last night but see the caveats in other messages about it.

S

[Guest dwallersv]

DeepBlueEditor, it certainly wasn't my intent to criticize you or make you upset. Perhaps I don't have a grasp of what the problem really is.

I have my domain and email hosted by Yahoo. I use pop3 to access it with the WM6 mail application, and have no problems. This ability is not going away.

If I understand you correctly, the problem you have seems to be a limitation due to a workaround necessary to bypass security features of your corporate email server, not Verizon. You've been able to take advantage of an open access situation with Verizon's servers to work around this, and now they are closing the loophole.

Again, maybe I misunderstand, and if so, would appreciate clarification. Put simply, what I understand you to be doing is using Verizon's servers as an SMTP relay for your workplace servers. If this is correct, all my points stand.

[Guest Adrynalyne]

Understood but this is for an Active Sync which requires you to be at our computer and sync with the Omnia connected. This is not convenient for use while out and about, as I am currently able to do. You can setup Gmail to use the normal connections and data easily enough. In fact, it found most of the settings automatically when I set it up last night but see the caveats in other messages about it.

S

No, its Activesync OTA. It does not require you to be at a computer. However, it doesn't support Gmail...yet.