WM6.5: It ain't that bad!

[Guest l3v5y]

Firstly, yes, MS could have done more with WM6.5, they could have done something completely new, but WM6.5 isn't a complete OS, it's a stop gap release before WM7 is finished next year. If MS had put more in to WM6.5, you'd all be complaining about how long WM7 is taking to finish, so which would you prefer? A more improved WM6.1 derived OS, or a brand new OS? I for one would prefer WM7.

Now, on to the good things in WM6.5...

Yes, WM6.5 uses a broadly similar UI, but for the intended audience (mostly business users), it's the function rather than the form that is important, and if you care that much about UIs, there are numerous different ones you can install. This is something no other mobile OS has, and that WM does very well. You can change virtually everything about it as and when you like, and WM6.5 extends this over WM6.1 with image based enlarged menus, PNG based start menu icons, and more transparency everywhere. You can also install virtually anything you like from whichever developer you like, without it having to go through the rigorous, almost comical level of checking and random rejection iPhone developers have to go through, and you can do all that without a jailbreak. Most of the issues people have with WM6.5 are in vanilla ROMs only, very few devices run like that, and most of those are for business applications where it makes sense to have not much installed, as OEMs have realised that WM allows so many changes in the OS image that you can add whatever UI you want. Some stick what things like SPB Mobile Shell, while others like HTC or Samsung have TouchFlo and TouchWiz respectively. The fact that OEMs can do this is something very other OSs can do.

Jailbreaking is something that a large number (by no means all) of iPhone users seem to regard as something that unleashes the full potential of the device, and yet think that ROM flashing is something that really shouldn't be done... It's not difficult, and it's far less risky than jailbreaking where essentially, if it goes wrong, you're utterly screwed. With WM thanks to brilliant minds like Olipro and Cmonex, flashing a ROM is pretty risk free. If it fails, find a shipped ROM and your safe.

From a developer point of view, WM offers many more possibilities: don't have money for VS2008? There's eVC++ which is free, a large number of C++/VB/C# compilers (the latter two using .Net CF) and a variety of other options for developing. With VB/C# it's as simple as dragging and dropping and you can build a decent application, and with the large number of custom controls (such as Silvermoon) you can get a very nice design with very little time. I personally prefer the C++ route though, with access to all the hardware the device has (if you know what you’re doing) and things like OpenGL ES applications, without the massive overheads of .Net CF (which often account for more hardware utilisation than the applications themselves on WM). It also offers a much larger market, with many more routes to market. The casual developer can release what they want on sites like XDA-Developers, whilst the commercial developers have a choice of markets (such as Windows Marketplace for Mobile or Handango), and even the ability to distribute installers without needing to use a central marketplace. This is great for the casual developers that really don't want to have to deal with the certification process or want something out there immediately, and yet it also allows more seasoned developers to access the less technically able (some don't even know they are using a Windows Phone) markets.

The massive range of devices from vertical sliders like the aging HTC Touch Dual, to slabs like the TG01 or HTC HD2, and sliding keyboarded devices like the Omnia Pro. Consumers can have whatever form factor they like, and still have the same, consistent set of functionality with a familiar UI. It's much like PCs, where those running Windows can basically use whatever hardware they like, whereas those with more proprietary OSs (namely Mac OSX) have no choice. Android can be run on most hardware platforms, though there hasn't been that much interest (at least not until the Hero was released), and only two different form factors exist (horizontal sideways sliding devices and touchscreen only).

The browser in WM6.5 isn't great, but unlike other OSs, you can change it, you can get whatever you want. You may argue that getting a new browser is difficult, hard work or whatever, but seriously "Google: wm browser, click first link, download, copy to phone, double tap, job done". How stupid do you think consumers are? Marketplace is now there, which everyone complains about because there aren't any apps, or because of no locale selection or whatever. How many devices out there right now are running a legal copy of WM6.5? And how many of those are not in the US? The issue of no locale selection is only there because you're using a hacked together ROM on a device that really shouldn't support WM6.5 (yes, I know that sounds hypocritical, but I'm willing to accept that what I'm doing may not be strictly legal and I'm willing to live with the issues I get from having the latest daily builds).

The finger friendliness of WM6.5 is also commented on a lot. It really isn't that bad! I've only used my Diamonds (you know, with that massive 2.8" screen so everything is huge) stylus for putting the device in to boot loader to flash a ROM. I barely touch the thing normally as WM6.5 is fine for normal use. The honeycomb is a great UI, massive icons that are very easy to hit, and it's re-organisable (if you really hate the Move To Top/Drag'n'Drop from later builds, you can go in to \Windows\Start Menu\Programs and organise it from there, or use the registry under HKLM\Security\Start: yet another way you can tweak WM) and you can put applications in folders unlike so many other OSs (Games are games, Office is Office, why have them all on one screen/one list, and why have to swipe to get between pages when a dragging motion is so much faster). The home screen of WM6.5 is something I've come to love. It lets you get all the information you could possibly want without having to delve in to applications, and all at a glance. The lock screen is the same, with next appointment, and counters for calls etc. that let you get to the information quickly and efficiently (for example, a missed call on WM is tap, slide and your there, on the iPhone it's slide, try and find where you put that bloody icon with sliding between screens till finally, another tap. Which of those two would you prefer?)

WM6.5 is also under very active development, with massive changes in the UI happening as you’re sat here reading this. WM6.5.1 (and possibly WM6.6) will have a very different UI to what we have now, unlike other OSs where I doubt we will see many changes at all, and even if changes are happening no “normal” user will get their hands on them at any point in the future. The latest builds of WM6.5.1 that we have are something that builds on the great successes of WM5,6,6.1 and 6.5 with more UI changes, an improved browser and even better support of things like Exchange (and unlike some devices, it’s always supported device encryption, and actually tells the truth).

HTC seem to be pushing the user customisation line with Make It Mine on both Android (Sense UI) and Windows Mobile (the HD2s Manila2.5) yet seem to have missed the massive amount of customsation that WM allows natively.

Yes, you may think I'm one sided here (and as a moderator on XDA you may well expect that), only looking at WM, and not at the competitors, but it seems acceptable for other news sites to do the exact opposite, claiming that nothing is as good as the iPhone even when it clearly is. I have used an iPhone/iPod touch, I have used a G1, and nothing compares to the way that I can do virtually anything I want on my Windows Phone. Oh, and has anyone else noticed quite how hypocritical Apple is by switching from the "everything is integrated; you don't need third party applications" to "solving problems one app at a time"?

[Guest it_ferret]

Here Here, well said. I quickly jumped ship as soon as I saw the HTC Hero straight onto a 24m contract but after 2 months of using it I do miss all the little things and big things that you can do with Windows Mobile. So thats it i'm Selling and buying the HD2 when it finally arrives.

I will keep an active eye on the Android development don't get me wrong, but thats about it. Perhaps in 12 months time android could be the OS to use but until then comeback Windows Mobile I'm sorry............

[Guest Sonicr360]

I hear rumours of Android 2 could be around sooner than we think!

Like you, I think its a case of jump ship and when Microsoft get themselves sorted, then maybe customers will reconsider.

Could be a case of "too little, too late". Take away the new front end layout, and I guess the stylus is still gonna be used.....

Maybe Microsoft will listen to what people want - But as I said above, maybe too little too late.

Im with IT-ferret - Hero is VERY good. iPhone - Well its VERY good - Do not own one ... but from what I can see, it ticks alot of boxes - Well both systems do ....!

[Guest Sonicr360]

Just received this on an email from another Moddy member....

http://www.coolsmartphone.com/news5156.html

Worth a read, and worth looking at the video

Interestingly, they have a POLL here, and maybe it would be worthwhile getting the views of all Modaco members, and perhaps doing something similar while we wait for WM7 to arrive next year :) :( ;)

http://www.coolsmartphone.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14650

Anyhow, Win7 (Desktop version for PC's) is out tomorrow, so there is something to look forward to for most users (But since I have been using it since Beta1, I already know what its like).

The joys of being a Developer ;) For WM and Servers......

Edited October 21, 2009 by Sonicr360

[Guest jackdaniel]

l3v5y I agree with you 100%, it ain't that bad... microsoft is a big company and people spects a lot from them, some are happy now that with windows 7 they showed they corrected their direcction to a better one fixing old mistakes. I happes the same with windows phones, people don't like w6.5, w6.1 and remember, they wont like wm7 either, they always spect more that they get. It's true what the video Sonicr360 linked showed, almost insignificant changes maybe, but hey!!??? are we gonna judge an OS for the way it looks??? nice photoshoped buttons, 3D? or can we also productivity, functionality and freedom to change what we want, when we want, make our phone look however we want it to, todays, dialers, wheaters and all.

I want them to improve the OS in all ways, but it doesnt make me feel dissapointed about what I have, I'll continue using excelent "alternative" ROMs and using winMo.

[Guest Juicy_Jaffa]

Hmm...I've been involved in commercial development of Windows Mobile applications for some years now (our first stuff was for the SPV E100 - HTC Tanager), hell my company's whole strategy during this time was based on WM! It's good to see that WM is moving forward and your comments about needing to do more and prefering a full WM7 release rather than something in the interim are well founded.

However, recently we were asked by a customer to develop an app for the iPhone.

I can hear you groaning now. "You poor soul, having to work with the wretched iPhone, it's awful development environment and the strictness of the developer program!" But wait, that's not really what we found!

The UI on the iPhone is great, true you can't re-skin it, but why would you want to it just works!

The development environment was (and still is) a free download. It's all there and it all works. Application distribution is different to WM, but it's real easy to get into and the info you need to provide to get into the developer program is not really different to that you'd need to get into the MSoft partner program. Application checking is similar to WM certification (though everything is in one portal with Apple rather than having to get external certificates with WM) and we haven't had any 'random rejection' problems with either Apple or MSoft. Most of the problems we have had with WM devices come from the differences in OEM ROMs or manufacturer hardware differences and the fiddling we need to do to get around these, iPhone is at least consistent.

Many teccy (is that a real word?) iPhone users do jailbreak their devices, personally I don't know anyone who has and I know know many many iPhone owners, but there you go. Equally, many teccy WM users use cooked ROMs. Again I know many WM users but very few who have flashed to something other than what it came with. I think in general, your average Jo in the street won't do this and it becomes a mute point. I have flashed many WM devices, but not yet had to jailbreak an iPhone.

I can't remember how much VS2008 costs, but really if you want to be a commercial WM developer, being in the partner program is somewhat necessary and it costs in the order of the low thousands. Being in the iPhone developer program is $99 and you get all the developer tools, SDK's and updates you can eat! On WM we tend to use either C++ or C# though we have used VB from time to time. On iPhone we use ObjectiveC C++ and C. In general, it's swings and roundabouts, I love some things in VS and I love others in XCode. The WM market is indeed broader. There are many software outlets that you can sell your stuff through, hell, you can even cut out the middleman and sell it yourself and keep all your profit margin! That's much better for sure. In contrast the AppStore is concentrated, you know exactly where to go to get your apps, they are all in one place and boy is it slick. The end user purchase and installation experience is second to none even on the device itself.

There are many more form factors for WM than iPhone. This diversity is great and you can choose exactly the device that suits your needs wether it be a ruggedised brick or a stylish consumer device. From Apple there is the iPhone in it's various revisions or the iPod touch (a stripped down iPhone in essence). This does mean that if you don't like the iPhone or it doesn't suit your purpose then you're stuffed.

The browser in WM is rubbish. Absolutely rubbish and always has been. You can change it, but why should you have to. Perhaps it derives from the fact that IE on Windows is also rubbish. Safari on iPhone in comparison is divine and you wouldn't want to change it so there's no need to hunt down another browser.

Finger friendliness...it's enough to say just use an iPhone for a day then you know what finger friendliness really is. Until WM devices get the same type of screens that the iPhones have there is no finger friendliness on WM.

Advances in OS are imperative for all devices. Nothing can stand still unless it is to be sunset. WM is going forward and iPhone OS is going forward. They need to to stay ahead of the competition. They are all under active development and they all need to be! Maybe the lack of publicity and the perceived fall in market share of WM necessitates MSoft to actually state this as a fact? Support for commercial technologies such as Exchange is essential for any credible platform and I have to say that the initial setup for our Exchange server (and a number of others who came to us for advice) to use WM devices was hard work. Finding out how to generate certificates etc. was difficult. Checking the box in Exchange was the easy bit and only 1% of the solution. Other platforms have been much easier.

I've tried to be impartial, but reading back it doesn't sound that way. We still develop a lot of WM stuff here and we will do into the future, but the reason that I was prompted to reply was that having seen all aspects of the competition (and I'm specifically talking iPhone here) from application development to daily use I have to say that one sided views are very 'ostrich like' and I don't like sand in my ears. You have to say that Apple have done an excellent job. More than that even, they got it dead on. In our office here we have a cupboard full of various WM devices. Granted, some old, but mostly very new (some even experimental an unreleased!) and everyone uses iPhone day to day out of choice. WM devices are great, but the world moves and you have to see all aspects of the market. All platforms come with a choice set of applications intended to be a 'get you going' sample. the diversity of extra applications is equally broad across platforms and there is as much dross for WM as there is for iPhone, but it's the overall experience that counts in the end and WM is playing catchup.

Sorry, I hate ranting.

[Guest Arag0n]

Hmm...I've been involved in commercial development of Windows Mobile applications for some years now (our first stuff was for the SPV E100 - HTC Tanager), hell my company's whole strategy during this time was based on WM! It's good to see that WM is moving forward and your comments about needing to do more and prefering a full WM7 release rather than something in the interim are well founded.

However, recently we were asked by a customer to develop an app for the iPhone.

I can hear you groaning now. "You poor soul, having to work with the wretched iPhone, it's awful development environment and the strictness of the developer program!" But wait, that's not really what we found!

The UI on the iPhone is great, true you can't re-skin it, but why would you want to it just works!

The development environment was (and still is) a free download. It's all there and it all works. Application distribution is different to WM, but it's real easy to get into and the info you need to provide to get into the developer program is not really different to that you'd need to get into the MSoft partner program. Application checking is similar to WM certification (though everything is in one portal with Apple rather than having to get external certificates with WM) and we haven't had any 'random rejection' problems with either Apple or MSoft. Most of the problems we have had with WM devices come from the differences in OEM ROMs or manufacturer hardware differences and the fiddling we need to do to get around these, iPhone is at least consistent.

Many teccy (is that a real word?) iPhone users do jailbreak their devices, personally I don't know anyone who has and I know know many many iPhone owners, but there you go. Equally, many teccy WM users use cooked ROMs. Again I know many WM users but very few who have flashed to something other than what it came with. I think in general, your average Jo in the street won't do this and it becomes a mute point. I have flashed many WM devices, but not yet had to jailbreak an iPhone.

I can't remember how much VS2008 costs, but really if you want to be a commercial WM developer, being in the partner program is somewhat necessary and it costs in the order of the low thousands. Being in the iPhone developer program is $99 and you get all the developer tools, SDK's and updates you can eat! On WM we tend to use either C++ or C# though we have used VB from time to time. On iPhone we use ObjectiveC C++ and C. In general, it's swings and roundabouts, I love some things in VS and I love others in XCode. The WM market is indeed broader. There are many software outlets that you can sell your stuff through, hell, you can even cut out the middleman and sell it yourself and keep all your profit margin! That's much better for sure. In contrast the AppStore is concentrated, you know exactly where to go to get your apps, they are all in one place and boy is it slick. The end user purchase and installation experience is second to none even on the device itself.

There are many more form factors for WM than iPhone. This diversity is great and you can choose exactly the device that suits your needs wether it be a ruggedised brick or a stylish consumer device. From Apple there is the iPhone in it's various revisions or the iPod touch (a stripped down iPhone in essence). This does mean that if you don't like the iPhone or it doesn't suit your purpose then you're stuffed.

The browser in WM is rubbish. Absolutely rubbish and always has been. You can change it, but why should you have to. Perhaps it derives from the fact that IE on Windows is also rubbish. Safari on iPhone in comparison is divine and you wouldn't want to change it so there's no need to hunt down another browser.

Finger friendliness...it's enough to say just use an iPhone for a day then you know what finger friendliness really is. Until WM devices get the same type of screens that the iPhones have there is no finger friendliness on WM.

Advances in OS are imperative for all devices. Nothing can stand still unless it is to be sunset. WM is going forward and iPhone OS is going forward. They need to to stay ahead of the competition. They are all under active development and they all need to be! Maybe the lack of publicity and the perceived fall in market share of WM necessitates MSoft to actually state this as a fact? Support for commercial technologies such as Exchange is essential for any credible platform and I have to say that the initial setup for our Exchange server (and a number of others who came to us for advice) to use WM devices was hard work. Finding out how to generate certificates etc. was difficult. Checking the box in Exchange was the easy bit and only 1% of the solution. Other platforms have been much easier.

I've tried to be impartial, but reading back it doesn't sound that way. We still develop a lot of WM stuff here and we will do into the future, but the reason that I was prompted to reply was that having seen all aspects of the competition (and I'm specifically talking iPhone here) from application development to daily use I have to say that one sided views are very 'ostrich like' and I don't like sand in my ears. You have to say that Apple have done an excellent job. More than that even, they got it dead on. In our office here we have a cupboard full of various WM devices. Granted, some old, but mostly very new (some even experimental an unreleased!) and everyone uses iPhone day to day out of choice. WM devices are great, but the world moves and you have to see all aspects of the market. All platforms come with a choice set of applications intended to be a 'get you going' sample. the diversity of extra applications is equally broad across platforms and there is as much dross for WM as there is for iPhone, but it's the overall experience that counts in the end and WM is playing catchup.

Sorry, I hate ranting.

I may agree with you some of your appointments but you are wrong with some points.

a) Why is needed another user interface if the iPhone own interface just works? 

By the same reason I do not buy the same car than you or you do not buy the same kind of shirts than me. Some android and wm interfaces let users to own a lot more information than iPhone. Facebook, Twitter, Brithdays reminders, Backgrounds, etc. I can agree that some people likes more the iPhone interface but from my point of view lacks much of the usability that android, spb shell, manila and other UI have.

:) Why is needed another browser than safari if it just works great?

Because if you own a WM device you will see that there are many browsers that are specialized into diferent kind of things. SkyFire allows to watch megavideo, and almost every kind of flash video or flash into any website, while Opera allows a fast browsing. Fennec (Firefox for WM) allows a desktop like user expirience with graphical tabs (but slow into a TG01!!!) and go on. Do you have all the features into Safari? I guess not. I can agree with you that explorer is bad and WM needs to come with a good browser from the box, but the avalibility to choice explorer is not an option. It's a must been.

[Guest funy]

I work in mobiles now so hoping to get a chance to try a 6.5 device soon to see how things have moved on...

however

i used a wizard / vario for about 18 months and quickly found the xda devs site and spent many happy months flashing roms etc, but your comparison that jailbreaking is more dangerous is ill informed in my opinion.

ive jailbroken many times (each new firmware lol) and never had any issues and if there ever are any crashes its app based and the developers put in a safe mode for this purpose so you can uninstall the offending app. The only real horror stories come from people who dont read instructions and try to flash either with the wrong software or tool or install an incorrect firmware. Its almost impossible to knacker and iphone as you can more often than not get back into DFU mode for restore (similar to the tri colour bootloader screens on winmo)

[Guest Cragger]

My Input to the MicroSoft WM 6.5.x developers/Mgmt:

Following is mostly my experience with what some are calling WM 6.5.1 -- ROMs in the com3 branch e.g. 23071 -- unless otherwise noted:

1) IE Mobile, although it has gotten better, is still not quite on par with Opera 9.5+. Specifically, when going back more than one page, you have to hit the bottom right button once, the back, the bottom right button, the back again, etc. Why can't the bottom right button be a little more sticky so you can hit back more than once in a row? Better yet, why not have a gester like swiping from right to left mean "back"?

Why not other gestures too, e.g. bottom to top means "zoom in", top to bottom means "zoom out", left to right means "forward", etc.? Any time gesture can replace one or two menu picks will make the app much more finger friendly.

Scrolling isn't as smooth as Opera.

2) Scrolling in general in File Explorer, Contacts list, etc. in fact is difficult. The difference between a slow flick (and the clicking slow scroll) and a faster flick is too hard to do. Most of the time when I'm trying to scroll fast it scrolls in the slow/click mode. Sometimes if you stop an app while its click scrolling the clicking keeps on going even after the app has ended too. Get rid of clicking -- we can see its scrolling...

The "kinetic" scrolling where you get bounce back at the end of lists, a slow flick scrolls slow, and a fast flick scrolls fast, is what I found easier to do. And it should do this everywhere -- IE, contact list, Titanium and Start screens when scrolling both up and down as well as left and right (e.g. in Weather across each day, in Contacts if you've seen ATContacts, etc.).

3) I've always had a hard time understanding the difference between "Personal" Settings options and "System". I'd combine them.

4) Going back to ATContacts, will Titanium plugins natively support greater than one "hotspot"? Why do we need things like JMLPanex to enable > 1 hotspot at a time for contact lists, app launching, etc.?

5) Speaking of ATContacts, when is WM 6.5.x going to have a native contacts and app launcher??

6) I love the Titanium bigger bottom menu area and larger app context menus. Much easier to use with fingers-only. One suggestion tho - for existing apps, it would be nice if the bottom menu text boxes in Titanium automatically resized to fit longer words/phrases in them without getting cut-off.

7) Please keep in mind a lot of screens don't display well in bright/sun light, so using the shades of gray in the Titanium bottom button menus is harder to see than e.g. black and white.

8) Lock screen -- I've tried to use the screen in the default config where its at the top and I don't like it there as much as when its at the bottom. It takes 2 hands to swipe at top. Also, why such small icons and fonts for message indicators? You have tons of space to display the slider, clock, and up to 3-4 message indicators. MAKE THE SLIDER BIGGER and MORE RESPONSIVE to each a one handed thumb swipe!

Thanks!

-Craig