OLED-screen using PenTile Matrix?

[Guest tombii]

Can anyone check if the OLED screen uses PenTile Matrix like the Nexus One?

Using PenTile Matrix technology, the total effective addressable spatial resolution will only be 392x653.

Check this link for description: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/0...-and-hacks.ars/

Edited September 30, 2010 by tombii

[Guest SCORPIO111]

link doesnt work

[Guest David Horvath]

Can anyone check if the OLED screen uses PenTile Matrix like the Nexus One?

Using PenTile Matrix technology, the total effective addressable spatial resolution will only be 392x653.

Check this link for description: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/0...-and-hacks.ars/

Could you insert the link right?

[Guest tombii]

Sorry, link fixed.

[Guest daniel_owen_uk]

How can I test?

That resolution is a little misleading, it's very different from having a 392 x 653 screen, even if it did use PenTile maxtrix.

Have my contact lenses in today, and have better than 20:20 vision with them, and I this issue on the screen, but dunno if it has to be under magnification?

[Guest Paul]

Extreme closeup I just took of my SF...

P

[Guest tombii]

Extreme closeup I just took of my SF...

P

Thanks Paul, it seems it has the PenTile Matrix as well, any impressions on reading black text on white background, is it blurry?

[Guest Paul]

Not at all, I find it very clear, but then I find the screen on the N1 awesome too.

That is a SERIOUSLY magnified shot, I don't really see any issue here...

P

[Guest PhoenixWrong]

I, for one, just learned that about the PenTile grid used in my HTC Desire the other day, and I am not pleased to find out that I had a 392 x 653 screen sold to me under the pretense of being 480 x 800. Had I known that, I would have waited a few months for the SLCD version. Prior to learning about this I was quite happy with the screen and didn't notice any blurriness in the text, but now that I know how the PenTile grid works I can actually see it when I hold the phone any closer than arm's length from my eyes. I notice it not just in text but also in the anime graphics of the games I play. On the other hand, it's basically unnoticeable in photos and live-action videos, which is probably how Samsung was sold on the technology in the first place. Hopefully I will stop noticing so much after the shock fades away. :lol:

[Guest Simon O]

I, for one, just learned that about the PenTile grid used in my HTC Desire the other day, and I am not pleased to find out that I had a 392 x 653 screen sold to me under the pretense of being 480 x 800. Had I known that, I would have waited a few months for the SLCD version. Prior to learning about this I was quite happy with the screen and didn't notice any blurriness in the text, but now that I know how the PenTile grid works I can actually see it when I hold the phone any closer than arm's length from my eyes. I notice it not just in text but also in the anime graphics of the games I play. On the other hand, it's basically unnoticeable in photos and live-action videos, which is probably how Samsung was sold on the technology in the first place. Hopefully I will stop noticing so much after the shock fades away. :lol:

Because you read online and are now expecting there to be an issue on the device which is ruining your enjoyment. Prior to learning about this you have been happy and didn't notice any issues. It's the shock of suddenly being told that you new expensive toy is actually defective which is making you angry. Nobody likes that.

[Guest tombii]

The article I linked to draws the following conclusion (replace Nexus One with SF):

There's no need sell your phone on eBay after reading this, and don't change your mind about purchasing a Nexus One until you've had a chance to see the screen yourself. You may not even notice or care about the text reproduction issue. Only when compared with an extremely high-res LCD screen like on the Droid are the text fuzziness comments truly noticeable—and that's a high standard to hold the screen to.

The Nexus One screen remains better than the iPhone[3GS] screen for text reproduction because the overall resolution is much higher, even taking into account the factors I describe. So if the iPhone[3GS] is your measuring stick, the N1 screen really rocks. Overall, the N1 display is beautiful and vivid with dark blacks and incredible photo reproduction. (I don't even have a problem with the visibility of sunlight viewing of the display which is a frequent complaint.)

Edited October 2, 2010 by tombii

[Guest DisplayGeek]

How can I test?

That resolution is a little misleading, it's very different from having a 392 x 653 screen, even if it did use PenTile maxtrix.

Have my contact lenses in today, and have better than 20:20 vision with them, and I this issue on the screen, but dunno if it has to be under magnification?

That's because the screen is actually, honestly and truly, wVGA at 800 X 480 display... it just simply only needs two subpixels per pixel to reach the same resolution as old style RGB Stripe screens needed three subpixels per pixel. You can learn how this is possible by reading this whitepaper:

http://www.nouvoyance.com/files/pdf/CV%20A...%2012-17-07.pdf

[Guest PhoenixWrong]

Because you read online and are now expecting there to be an issue on the device which is ruining your enjoyment. Prior to learning about this you have been happy and didn't notice any issues. It's the shock of suddenly being told that you new expensive toy is actually defective which is making you angry. Nobody likes that.

Well, not so much defective as having specifications that are inferior to what was advertised. It would be like if I ordered a 5.1 surround speaker package, but instead had one of those "sound projector" units delivered to me. The seller could then argue until he/she was blue in the face about how it supposedly "sounds just as good as 5.1 speakers" but the fact is that he/she deliberately deceived me.

I always carefully research specifications before making any expensive purchase, but there are certain reasonable assumptions I make like assuming that a "pixel" in a color display is an RGB triplet. The product literature gave absolutely no indication that this was not the case. Obviously from now on I will always have to make a point of verifying that a device's display uses proper RGB pixels.

[Guest Rem1x]

Well, not so much defective as having specifications that are inferior to what was advertised. It would be like if I ordered a 5.1 surround speaker package, but instead had one of those "sound projector" units delivered to me. The seller could then argue until he/she was blue in the face about how it supposedly "sounds just as good as 5.1 speakers" but the fact is that he/she deliberately deceived me.

I always carefully research specifications before making any expensive purchase, but there are certain reasonable assumptions I make like assuming that a "pixel" in a color display is an RGB triplet. The product literature gave absolutely no indication that this was not the case. Obviously from now on I will always have to make a point of verifying that a device's display uses proper RGB pixels.

Get over your self. The phone is £99, you can get it for cheaper. The screen looks fantastic, regardless of the res.

Screenshots come out at 480x800, anyway

[Guest PhoenixWrong]

That's because the screen is actually, honestly and truly, wVGA at 800 X 480 display... it just simply only needs two subpixels per pixel to reach the same resolution as old style RGB Stripe screens needed three subpixels per pixel. You can learn how this is possible by reading this whitepaper:

http://www.nouvoyance.com/files/pdf/CV%20A...%2012-17-07.pdf

First of all, it is highly suspicious that you joined this forum and made this first post in direct reaction to this thread (yes I know this is only my fifth post but I have been a member for nearly two months). It suggests to me that you have some kind of financial stake in this technology which you are not disclosing.

The fact is that the PenTile matrix is a cost-cutting measure for screen manufacturers who hope to save more money in manufacturing costs than what they pay in patent royalties. Samsung and HTC make a big point of touting AMOLED in their product literature because it is known to be a good display technology and prospective buyers become more likely to buy the product when they see that word. PenTile, on the other hand, is completely absent from the product literature precisely because they know it would be detrimental to the saleability of the product. In fact, this very thread exists because a prospective buyer, who does not want a PenTile display, cannot determine whether or not the ZTE Blade uses it due to the fact that ZTE, just like HTC and Samsung, would be reluctant to disclose their use of it.

When I am told, with no additional information, that a display is 800x480, I and every other consumer, electrical engineer, and programmer that I know assumes that this means a grid of 800x480 individually addressable pixels which are individually capable of taking on any color which the display is capable of showing. That is, I should be able to instruct, say, the pixel at coordinates (50,50) to change its color without causing any other pixels on the display to change color. That is simply not the case with this display as, if the (50,50) pixel only contains green and blue subpixels and I instruct it to show the color red, it is a pixel at different coordinates, perhaps (51,50) that is illuminated to produce the desired red dot. I don't care if VESA says that you can use black and white lines to define resolution; all display manufacturers know perfectly well that their prospective buyers expect each pixel to be individually capable of taking on any color within the advertised range. To use this technology in a product without fully disclosing it in the product literature is deception, plain and simple.

[Guest will7201]

C'mon guys, play nice! People have said that it deffo aint 800x480, so yeah, we should be miffed. But really! I'm getting this phone tomorrow for £79 *grins again* so lets enjoy the screen for what it 'looks' like, not for what it specifically is huh?

No party-poopers allowed, I'm getting this beauty later!! :)

Will.

[Guest PhoenixWrong]

Only 79 pounds??? Well, it's great news that such an affordable Android phone is now available, and for that price one certainly can't be too picky. I have no problem with cost-cutting measures like PenTile per se, I just think that the use of it should be fully disclosed in the product literature so that the consumer can make a fully-informed decision. For such an inexpensive phone I could certainly accept PenTile, but in an expensive, top-of-the-line phone like an HTC Desire or Samsung Galaxy S the undisclosed use of this technology is infuriating.

[Guest daniel_owen_uk]

C'mon guys, play nice! People have said that it deffo aint 800x480, so yeah, we should be miffed. But really! I'm getting this phone tomorrow for £79 *grins again* so lets enjoy the screen for what it 'looks' like, not for what it specifically is huh?

No party-poopers allowed, I'm getting this beauty later!! :)

Will.

It is 800x480, sorry I just get the confusion surrounding this, you load a 800x480 image on the screen and you would see it all without scrolling, simple as that.

Whether the colour would be correctly displayed, is a different issue.

If it was on a nexus, then yeah I might be a little miffed about what is essentially colour reproduction on a pixel by pixel level, but for £80? My phone has the same type of screen as an N1, honestly not that gutted.

Obviously as well whilst they show the cons of a pentile OLED screen the comparison between a high res LCD doesn't quite show you that the black they are showing is actually a dark shade of grey ;)

[Guest tttonyyy]

Bit of old thread revival as I've been doing a lot of reading about pentile vs RGB - this thread has some interesting pics for comparison in it:

http://androidforums.com/samsung-galaxy-s/...xel-matrix.html

Now I'm not so bothered that both the San Fran's we've picked up are TFT since we use the phones for text reading more than pictures/videos.

I do find it remarkable that higher end phones like the Galaxy S also use pentile AMOLED rather than RGB.

Edited January 18, 2011 by tttonyyy

[Guest toxibunny]

I like it. The slight fuzziness of the OLED gives it an old-school CRT-monitor type of warmness.

I've got a TFT san fran and my wife has the OLED, and while mine may be sharper, it's kindof clinical, the colour temperature is on the cool side, and it's just generally not as pleasing to the eye...

[Guest Hanks6]

The Blade definitely uses the PenTile matrix arrangement for its AMOLED screen. i have a OLED (my device) and TFT Blade in front of me. Everything is a LOT clearer looking on the TFT version due to the sub-pixel arrangement/density. This is particularly noticable for small black text on white backgrounds - zoomed out web pages. However, the OLED has far better black levels, vibrancy and superior viewing angle. I think the sharpness is probably going to be more important for a portable device where you want to be able to make out small text on web pages etc. Pros and cons, but my eyes can very clearly see the difference.

Interestingly, two upcoming Samsung devices, the Infuse 4G and Galaxy S 2, will have a 'Super AMOLED Plus' display. This is a AMOLED screen that uses a traditional RGB pixel arrangement. Samsung boast this to have 50% more sub-pixels than previous PenTile matrix AMOLED displays. Best of both worlds!

The best article on the drawbacks of PenTile matrix:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/0...-and-hacks.ars/

[Guest tttonyyy]

Interesting. I guess we've got a long wait before 800x480 RGB AMOLED on a budget phone.

From my understanding Samsung chose pentile because it gives a greater production yield with higher resolution displays. Some of their earlier lower resolution displays (such as in the i8910) were proper RGB AMOLED.

[Guest Hanks6]

Interesting. I guess we've got a long wait before 800x480 RGB AMOLED on a budget phone.

From my understanding Samsung chose pentile because it gives a greater production yield with higher resolution displays. Some of their earlier lower resolution displays (such as in the i8910) were proper RGB AMOLED.

definitely. apparently the main reason samsung are using the RGB arrangement on their new models is also due to the large scree size - 4.2/4.3 inches. These 'Super AMOLED Plus' screens will definitely be the best technology to appear in a mobile device thus far. It's pretty remarkable the Blade is able to include any type of AMOLED panel, albeit the cheapest/worst type. Still very impressive.