orange

[Guest simonastro]

dear paul

congratulations on a fantastic site!

I have learned loads in the last week searching the archives and, considering the woefully inadequate documentation that came with my spv, this has been priceless.

Unfortunately my most recent reads have been of disgruntled orange subscribers who feel they have been sold a product by means of misleading or inaccurate advertising. Voice tagging is a hot topic - as one used to the facility on my previous phone, I am certain drivers everywhere are fuming! The exact charging plan for gprs is also contentious.

Is it not four months since release and have orange made any effort to clear up these discrepancies?

It is obvious that collusion with microsoft ( is sendo/htc patent liturgation in the air ? ) would lead them to expect revenue from previously standard software facilities. What is not expected, however, is unexplained inaccuracies in product specification and terms of contract. There seems to be a willful silence from the company to whom we are all paying money.

I appreciate your desire to create "a voice that orange may listen to" and only hope that they do.

Obviously with your permission I would like to invite anyone to comment but particularly a representative from orange to let us know whether they monitor this forum and whether we can expect any answers.

simonastro

[Guest HelloDave]

There's one or two Orange tech support guys on this board, but officially MoDaCo is "frowned upon" by Orange, probably because we're partly responsible for cracking certification and thus potentially damaging their revenue. Any group of organized users is always going to be a worry for a big company - we can compare notes, and don't have to rely on them all the time! Apparently if Orange support are found out recommending us they get a warning!

[Guest Kal-el]

There are many of us here but alas, it's the powers that be who hold all the keys. We do our best, give up to date information that saves confusion and we have the means to check "rumours". Perhaps you could read through some of the other topics and u will see we really are trying.

[Guest HelloDave]

u will see we really are trying.

I'm sure you are; it's nice to know that at least a few people in O tech support know what they're talking about :) As always, management only see the world in terms of profit, and so we are unlikely to carry that much influence - at the time of writing this board has about 2600 registered users, and I believe 40 000 SPVs have been sold!

[Guest Kal-el]

I can't see why we would get a warnng, so long as we advise that it is not endorsed and any mods MAY invalidate any claims - manufacturers or otherwise...

[Guest Kal-el]

I work for Orange retail but my boss - and a moderator here, knows everything there is to possibly know about the SPV. Most i know from him but the really up to date stuff i get direct from orange. I suppose that since i'm not OPCS then i can't be "warned" by them - muwahahaha :)

[Guest HelloDave]

Obviously I don't work for OCS myself so I can't be sure but I read in another post somewhere that another user from OCS recommended MoDaCo and did get a warning for his trouble!

[Guest Kal-el]

...And i'm Superman, what am i afraid of? Y do i even need a job...

[Guest Pidder]

I phoned recently with orange switzerland and the guy on the phone didn't know about modaco at all (although he carries a spv himself and although i was directed here by the orange switzerland spv faq site!).

He just asked as he wouldnt believe ( :shock: ): A forum for the spv only???

Yes Orange... THE forum for the spv! :wink:

[Guest Big Ron - No Longer a Mem]

Obviously I don't work for OCS myself so I can't be sure but I read in another post somewhere that another user from OCS recommended MoDaCo and did get a warning for his trouble!

It was me. Orange routinely monitors calls "for training purposes", and I got an official telling-off for suggesting that an answer might be found here. I pointed out that Modaco is LINKED from Orange's English-Language Swiss site... and was advised "That's up to them. We do NOT endorse modaco, and you are NOT to give out their address." You can't get more categorical than that: "You're ONLY allowed to tell the customers what's on the computer in front of you, and if that's not enough... tough. We don't support it." I felt that wasn't good enough, and made no secret that I was looking for jobs in IT support elsewhere. Yesterday I was taken aside and told that as I obviously wasn't happy working for Orange... then the best solution would be for me to leave. As in NOW.

Note that of the dozen people who started on the same day as I did, half have already quit. It's a similar pattern for the previous couple of intakes, and generally it's the more technically able who quit first.

I'm not sure if I should be angry or relieved. Whatever... I made some good friends in 156... if any of them are reading this, I send them my best wishes. :)

[Guest simonastro]

my sympathies for your job loss.

orange seem to have as little regard for their employees as their customers.

maybe u can dish some dirt ?

[Guest]

So let me get this straight - Big Ron tried to answer a customer query, didn't have the answer in front of him so forwarded the customer to a place where the answer could be found - and he got the bullet for that!?!

'Scuse my asterisk but that is BULLSH*T!! Potentially, Big Ron's advice has meant that customer has kept their SPV rather than returning it (which any SPV owner has PLENTY of reasons to do), and that's how Orange reward their staff?????? :evil:

Maybe this thread should be made a sticky just so people can see what Orange think of decent customer service and their employees! Big Ron, sounds like you're better off out of there, my respects and condolences to the rest of team 156.

[Guest Paul [MVP]]

So here's an interesting one... I have been informed by O that they are willing to put a link to the site from Orange.com!

P

[Guest dbcohen]

I think it is worth remembering a few of things.

Firstly, SPV will only be a small part of Orange's revenue. Despite the fact that as a data-enabled GPRS phone, it can ramp up plenty of network usage for Orange, by far the largest portion of their business is and will continue to be voice traffic.

Before the howls of protest begin, (Microsoft partnership, flagship phone, way of the future etc.) I think that Orange have actually been pretty forward thinking in their marketing of SPV. The access pack is a great intro offer, the support sites they have created are pretty good, and the phone fits well with their overall service level (IMHO one of the best among the mobile operators). It certainly has been better marketed and supported than the stuff o2 has been doing (XDA, Blackberry).

Secondly, while I sympathise with Big Ron (he was trying to help his customer), I can understand Orange's approach. They, through the certification etc. have tried very hard to ensure that SPV does not become a route to something that will get them bad publicity over security. One could argue that this is actually very prudent given Microsoft's poor security track record. In that mentality and climate, I could understand them disapproving of Modaco given it is a source of overcoming that security. Also, remember that sometimes in the heat of the moment some of us type some very harsh things about the Orange organisation - that WILL colour perceptions within that organisation.

Of course, I would rather have the phone decertified legally, so that I could run whatever I want on it. However, it is Orange's product, and they reserve the right it issue it with whatever security they choose (as do Sky with a digibox, Microsoft with XP activation, and countless other products).

In Big Ron's case, it sounds from his post like his lack of discretion over finding somewhere else to work rather than the Modaco referral incident were the primary drivers in his case (though I apologise in advance, Big Ron, if I have misinterpreted your sentiments). Anyhow, I am sure that any enlightened support company would, on hearing the story, snap him up as willing to work 'outside the box' to help a customer.

[Guest vampyre69]

unfortunatly most corporate companies follow suit figures/turnover first, profit second, competitors third, customers fourth, stock sixth, exployees seventh/last.

:-(

''Resistance is futile you must follow our stringent procedures and protocol, it has been proven in amerika that this system works best, blah blah blah'' as spoken in a monotonal anal retentive voiceover from some greysuited anal probing power seeker.

[Guest Big Ron - No Longer a Mem]

So let me get this straight - Big Ron tried to answer a customer query, didn't have the answer in front of him so forwarded the customer to a place where the answer could be found - and he got the bullet for that!?!

'Scuse my asterisk but that is BULLSH*T!!  Potentially, Big Ron's advice has meant that customer has kept their SPV rather than returning it (which any SPV owner has PLENTY of reasons to do), and that's how Orange reward their staff??????   :evil:  

Maybe this thread should be made a sticky just so people can see what Orange think of decent customer service and their employees!  Big Ron, sounds like you're better off out of there, my respects and condolences to the rest of team 156.

That's NOT what I said. Orange decided not to employ me further based on their (correct) assertion that I was "obviously not happy working here". Previously, they had monitored two calls where I commended Modaco, and I received an official reprimand. My suggestion that Modaco IS linked to an Orange site (ww.Orange.ch) was dismissed as "irrelevant" - "What the Swiss do is up to them". I had also declined to sign the unilateral change in terms and conditions - from "alternate Saturday" working to "Every third Saturday AND Sunday" for zero additional recompense. Commending Modaco seems to have been the main reason for my "probationary period" being extended from three months to six... although Orange were under no obligation to explain their decision (hence my vagueness about the subject) While you're a "probationer", the company has the contractual right to terminate your contract at any time. They did so. I'm neither bitter nor angry about that - I was already looking for another job, and made no secret of it.

Orange owns the bat, and they own the ball - so they get to make the rules. The problem with that kind of power is that it's hard to find anyone who wants to play with you, once they realise the position.

My "having had my probation terminated" has probably helped Orange's managerial statistics: I show up in the "probations terminated" column, rather than the "quit within the probationary period" column.

No, I'm NOT going to "dish the dirt". I signed the damned contract in good faith, and there's a clause about confidentiality. I gave my word... so I'll keep it. But I don't see the "termination of my probation" as a confidential matter: I "own" 50% of it. Besides... I'm going to need a reference for my next job! :wink:

[Guest Firaas]

unfortunatly most corporate companies follow suit figures/turnover first, profit second, competitors third, customers fourth, stock sixth, exployees seventh/last.

It's the ones who attack this list in the right way that succeed.

Take a look at "The Times' 100 Best Companies to Work For" 2002.

1: Asda

 

2: Microsoft

 

3: Richer Sounds

 

4: Bain & Company

 

5: AIT

 

6: Timpson

 

7: Cisco Systems

 

8: Goldman Sachs

 

9: Bacardi Martini

 

10: JLT Risk Solutions

 

11: SAP

 

12: Capital One

 

13: MBNA

 

14: Intel

 

15: Sun Microsystems

That list contains some of the most respected business names in the UK.

The example Microsoft:

Staff praise the facilities at Reading — parkland with free ice creams and picnic blankets in summer and outdoor heaters in winter, a free gym, and a wellbeing centre offering Indian head massage, free travel vaccinations, dermatology consultations and much else besides.  

The firm, keen to avoid sick building syndrome, pumps new air into its offices eight times an hour, and encourages workers not to stay too long. By joining the 9 to 5.30 club, employees ensure that 10p is donated to the NSPCC each time they go home before 5.30pm. There is private health insurance, daily fresh fruit and drinks and the use of an anarchy zone to chill out, watch MTV or talk to tropical fish.

...and I can vouch for MS personnel (except for one occasion) being the best support personnel I have ever dealt with. In fact, the one occasion which did go wrong, I was offered any complementary Microsoft product of my choice to make up for it - and I'd simply mentioned what I was told the day before, and wondered about the progress.

Interesting that One2One is on the list, but Orange isn't (this'll be before it was renamed to T-Mobile), I know I've experienced excellent CS from One2One, but I believe that Orange's business CS is the best in the field, and this is only from two months' experience, with no real problems having arisen.

[Guest Monolithix [MVP]]

From the Times Top 100 Graduate Employers

67 - Qinetiq (NEW)

Not bad for a measly YinI student...

[Guest Big Ron - No Longer a Mem]

It's the ones who attack this list in the right way that succeed.

Take a look at "The Times' 100 Best Companies to Work For" 2002.

That list contains some of the most respected business names in the UK.

The example Microsoft:

...and I can vouch for MS personnel (except for one occasion) being the best support personnel I have ever dealt with. In fact, the one occasion which did go wrong, I was offered any complementary Microsoft product of my choice to make up for it - and I'd simply mentioned what I was told the day before, and wondered about the progress.

Interesting that One2One is on the list, but Orange isn't (this'll be before it was renamed to T-Mobile), I know I've experienced excellent CS from One2One, but I believe that Orange's business CS is the best in the field, and this is only from two months' experience, with no real problems having arisen.

I'm told that orange USED to be a great company to work for, before they were bought by France Telecom. SOME of the old ways linger on... but they're counterbalanced by some new "just shut up and do as we tell you!" measures that have led to a MAJOR problem with staff turnover. 156 staff typically stay for months rather than years.

I'm amazed that Microsoft are on the list. Or then again, maybe it shows a flaw in the list. Over in the US, all the "non techie" staff (packaging and despatch, receptionists...) got fired and replaced by subcontractors - same jobs, lower pay. I guess those who got canned wouldn't regard Microsoft as a "good employer". But then - they're not employed by Microsoft any longer, so didn't get asked. The trick to getting on the list seems to be (a) "fire anyone who isn't likely to regard you as a good employer" (:) farm their jobs out to low-pay contractors. That way the stock options of those who remain are worth even more, and their "satisfaction rate" will rise even higher! :twisted: :twisted: