Gen1 vs Gen2 => FIGHT!

[Guest Rotmann]

Hello mates. Just thought I'd make an objective comparison between a Gen1 and a Gen2 Blade as the actual advantages and disadvantages are not clear, some people say Gen2 is better, some say it's worse and the most say it's the same. In the left corner we have my wife's Gen1 white LCD San Francisco, in the right corner my Gen2 OLED San Francisco, both running CM7. My wife's runs RC4 and has the notification bar at the top, mine runs 7.0.2 and has the notification bar at the bottom. The tests have been done in the o2 Germany network in a city where HSPA (HSDPA 7,2 Mbps + HSUPA 5,76 Mbps) is available, at 5:00 in the morning so that the network capacity is pretty free. o2 Germany operates mainly in frequencies of 1800 MHz in 2G and 2100 MHz for 3G, as it is in our case. Let's get ready to rumbleee :D

Round 1: 3G/HSDPA signal strength

Tested inside and outside, no difference here, values between -93 dbm 10 ASU and -103 dbm 5 ASU. Result of the first round: Gen1 1 Point | Gen2 1 Point

Round 2: 2G/GPRS signal strength

Tested inside and outside, no difference here, values between -83 dbm 15 ASU and -99 dbm 7 ASU. Result of the second round: Gen1 2 Points | Gen2 2 Points

Round 3: HSUPA

Tested at full signal strength, no difference again :o Upload did not get better than the theoretically possible 384 kbps, tested 5 times on each phone on 2-3 servers around the location. Ignore the download speeds, they varied on both phones between 1,5 and 2,5 Mbps, the other ones were blurry, I have chosen the best quality and not the best download speed as they varied and were just about the same. I could not take pictures of both at the same time as my wife does not have a data plan, had to change the SIM between the phones, it does not make any difference. Result of the third round: Gen1 3 Points | Gen2 3 Points

Gen1 => Gen2 =>

Proof that there is HSDPA and HSUPA in the zone on my new baby, nexus one :D (got it very cheap from a relative for 160€ or else I wouldn't have bought it, Blade is on sale now and will bring more money than the n1 costed because it's a rare OLED :D Tears my heart apart to sell my trusty Blade, brilliant phone, just love it, but I need adobe flash sometimes for the university, dammit!) =>

Conclusion:

Some will say that there should be a forth round with the 850 MHz band. Sorry, can't travel to Canada or Australia or another non-european country where I can test. But someone on the forum (can't remember the name, sorry) was in Canada on 850MHz and it did not work. Also no one confirmed that this band works, untill there is any proof, I can't suppose it works.

Regarding HSUPA, some users reported it works. I have two theories for this: either HSUPA works only on 900MHz 3G Networks which are available in some countries (afaik not in Germany) or people don't really know what HSUPA means (I've seen some people on the forum saying they have HSUPA because they have an H on the notification bar :mellow: ). If you have HSUPA post a picture or screen shot of a Speedtest.net test with an upload speed over 0,4 Mbps, as seen in my last picture and opposite to some people saying the app does not give you HSUPA speeds, it really works. Changing to another server and trying at hours where most people are sleeping helps too.

The fact that Gen2 does not bring any practical difference left a mixed feeling in my mind. So many efforts, changes and discussions... what for? Sure, native Gen2 owners are happy about it, but they are very few. And thanks to the genius of wbaw Gen2 is not so scary as it was. But still, what do you think about it? Do not flame and post crap as it was the case with older Gen1 vs Gen2 discussions be objective and talk facts!

[Guest KACE_231]

The only issue with this test is that you forgot one key control variable, that is you havent used the same ROM. For example my WiFi download speeds doubled between consecutive nightlies so I suggest running the comparison with SS RLS5, and also testing wifi if possible.

[Guest njdujian]

Hello mates. Just thought I'd make an objective comparison between a Gen1 and a Gen2 Blade as the actual advantages and disadvantages are not clear, some people say Gen2 is better, some say it's worse and the most say it's the same. In the left corner we have my wife's Gen1 white LCD San Francisco, in the right corner my Gen2 OLED San Francisco, both running CM7. My wife's runs RC4 and has the notification bar at the top, mine runs 7.0.2 and has the notification bar at the bottom. The tests have been done in the o2 Germany network in a city where HSPA (HSDPA 7,2 Mbps + HSUPA 5,76 Mbps) is available, at 5:00 in the morning so that the network capacity is pretty free. o2 Germany operates mainly in frequencies of 1800 MHz in 2G and 2100 MHz for 3G, as it is in our case. Let's get ready to rumbleee :D

Round 1: 3G/HSDPA signal strength

Tested inside and outside, no difference here, values between -93 dbm 10 ASU and -103 dbm 5 ASU. Result of the first round: Gen1 1 Point | Gen2 1 Point

Round 2: 2G/GPRS signal strength

Tested inside and outside, no difference here, values between -83 dbm 15 ASU and -99 dbm 7 ASU. Result of the second round: Gen1 2 Points | Gen2 2 Points

Round 3: HSUPA

Tested at full signal strength, no difference again :o Upload did not get better than the theoretically possible 384 kbps, tested 5 times on each phone on 2-3 servers around the location. Ignore the download speeds, they varied on both phones between 1,5 and 2,5 Mbps, the other ones were blurry, I have chosen the best quality and not the best download speed as they varied and were just about the same. I could not take pictures of both at the same time as my wife does not have a data plan, had to change the SIM between the phones, it does not make any difference. Result of the third round: Gen1 3 Points | Gen2 3 Points

Gen1 => Gen2 =>

Proof that there is HSDPA and HSUPA in the zone on my new baby, nexus one :D (got it very cheap from a relative for 160€ or else I wouldn't have bought it, Blade is on sale now and will bring more money than the n1 costed because it's a rare OLED :D Tears my heart apart to sell my trusty Blade, brilliant phone, just love it, but I need adobe flash sometimes for the university, dammit!) =>

Conclusion:

Some will say that there should be a forth round with the 850 MHz band. Sorry, can't travel to Canada or Australia or another non-european country where I can test. But someone on the forum (can't remember the name, sorry) was in Canada on 850MHz and it did not work. Also no one confirmed that this band works, untill there is any proof, I can't suppose it works.

Regarding HSUPA, some users reported it works. I have two theories for this: either HSUPA works only on 900MHz 3G Networks which are available in some countries (afaik not in Germany) or people don't really know what HSUPA means (I've seen some people on the forum saying they have HSUPA because they have an H on the notification bar :mellow: ). If you have HSUPA post a picture or screen shot of a Speedtest.net test with an upload speed over 0,4 Mbps, as seen in my last picture and opposite to some people saying the app does not give you HSUPA speeds, it really works. Changing to another server and trying at hours where most people are sleeping helps too.

The fact that Gen2 does not bring any practical difference left a mixed feeling in my mind. So many efforts, changes and discussions... what for? Sure, native Gen2 owners are happy about it, but they are very few. And thanks to the genius of wbaw Gen2 is not so scary as it was. But still, what do you think about it? Do not flame and post crap as it was the case with older Gen1 vs Gen2 discussions be objective and talk facts!

good Test!

your result is GEN1=GEN2? But other function's ?

[Guest Rotmann]

The only issue with this test is that you forgot one key control variable, that is you havent used the same ROM. For example my WiFi download speeds doubled between consecutive nightlies so I suggest running the comparison with SS RLS5, and also testing wifi if possible.

I did not forget anything. I have tested with the latest stable Gen1 release vs. latest stable Gen2 release. Wifi is not object of Gen2, this test concentrates purely on what Gen2 should bring: better signal and HSUPA, both unconfirmed. I did not want to use a converter to use the same CM7 on Gen1 and Gen2, just to keep thing official and did not use SS because I see the future of blade ROMs in CM7.

good Test!

your result is GEN1=GEN2? But other function's ?

No other functions. And please do not quote such a long post, it's not good :mellow:

[Guest Len Ash]

I made this point a few weeks ago on the forum - similar tests, less formal. I can't be a*sed searching, but it's there. I was trying to counter the claim from some that going Gen 2 was somehow an "upgrade". It isn't - a point I keep making even now.

Some of the forum regulars should avoid misleading. However intended.

Found it:

QUOTE(hecatae @ Apr 13 2011, 11:59) *

I agree, to quote "we should avoid putting the notion in the minds of others that moving to gen 2 from gen1 is neither necessary or desirable"

double negative

so when are you upgrading?

I answered your last question in the post above. And it isn't an upgrade - Freudian slip? Unless you wish to mislead.

I have had Gen 1 and Gen 2 running SS RLS4 on identical phones and builds, side by side, same carrier, for over a week. No freakin difference on/in anything, "speed", battery consumption, boot time, shutdown time, app opening speed. 2G or 3G+ d/l speed, u/l speed, signal level sensitivity, radio power output, WiFi throughput, BT xfer speeds or otherwise. No hidden features or functions, no magic at all in fact.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Len Ash

[Guest Fou-lu]

I made this point a few weeks ago on the forum - similar tests, less formal. I can't be a*sed searching, but it's there. I was trying to counter the claim from some that going Gen 2 was somehow an "upgrade". It isn't - a point I keep making even now.

Some of the forum regulars should avoid misleading. However intended.

It's Only useful to get latest CM (officaly) and now clockwork too, that's about it yeah lol

I thought mighty signal increase! ,didn't happen, no noticeable change.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Fou-lu

[Guest DannyDanny]

I live in Aus. Upgraded from Gen1 to Gen2. 3g Signal is identical. (I think...)

[Guest isambard]

Nice job Rotmann! Let's see if anyone can present evidence to the contrary re either signal strength, HSUPA or 850mhz.

[Guest Putterill]

Nice job Rotmann! Let's see if anyone can present evidence to the contrary re either signal strength, HSUPA or 850mhz.

I am getting much improved reception on Gen2.

No figures as such, but before going gen 2 I had very poor reception in the house, to the point where I had to stand by the front window to make a call, 3-4 bars everywhere in the house now and no more missed calls. I can also get a solid 3g connection in the coffee shop down the road which used to be impossible.

Also I have noticed that I now get interference from my stereo which I didn't before (you know, the dit-dit-dit-diiiiiiiitttt sound!), whether that is a sign of higher signal strength I don't know.

[Guest mazaisti]

in the right corner my Gen2 OLED San Francisco

Is it original gen2 (probably not because of OLED)? If you converted it how did you do it? With TPT method or the other?

My point is that conversion with TPT method uses some kind of hybrid of GEN1 an GEN2 and I am wondering it this affects to the signal strength and HSUPA issues (radio code still GEN1 or something like that)?

[Guest KonstaT]

Is it original gen2 (probably not because of OLED)? If you converted it how did you do it? With TPT method or the other?

My point is that conversion with TPT method uses some kind of hybrid of GEN1 an GEN2 and I am wondering it this affects to the signal strength and HSUPA issues (radio code still GEN1 or something like that)?

There shouldn't be any difference wheather you bought gen2, updated using windows or updated using TPT. amss.mbn (which contains radio firmware) is gen2 anyway. In my understanding TPT method uses that file taken from Comviq windows update.

Friend of mine bought brand new saunalahti 2.2 (gen2) Blade. He said that it doesn't have HSUPA. I didn't test it myself, but have no reason to doubt his word...

[Guest mazaisti]

amss.mbn (which contains radio firmware) is gen2 anyway. In my understanding TPT method uses that file taken from Comviq windows update.

Good information, just wanted to make sure that all the variables are taken in account when making these comparisons.

Contradicting experineces about signal issues made me wonder that maybe there are some differences on software.

[Guest Chris_M]

With a normal signal, I see no difference in reception between Gen1 and Gen2. But I DEFINITELY get much improved reception in marginal signal areas.

My desk at work is in a mobile signal blackspot, and with Gen1 I could never connect to the network. But with Gen2 I can connect with no problem.

[Guest KACE_231]

With a normal signal, I see no difference in reception between Gen1 and Gen2. But I DEFINITELY get much improved reception in marginal signal areas.

My desk at work is in a mobile signal blackspot, and with Gen1 I could never connect to the network. But with Gen2 I can connect with no problem.

I upgraded to GEN2 via wbaw's TPT method. What I have noticed is definite improved WiFi coverage, but more importantly I now instantaneously get HSDPA/HSUPA (the H signal on the notifcation bar) in an area that I could only just get a 3G signal (at home in the bedroom). Either something has been unlocked or there is a definite improvement in signal quality and strength.

[Guest Spies]

so the next test would be to artificially attenuate the signal by placing both gens in a metal box and see which ones better?

[Guest Rotmann]

Is it original gen2 (probably not because of OLED)? If you converted it how did you do it? With TPT method or the other?

My point is that conversion with TPT method uses some kind of hybrid of GEN1 an GEN2 and I am wondering it this affects to the signal strength and HSUPA issues (radio code still GEN1 or something like that)?

The conversion has been made using TPT, there is no practical difference between the two methods of converting.

so the next test would be to artificially attenuate the signal by placing both gens in a metal box and see which ones better?

I have done that. o2 Germany 3G is crap indoor, the first picture on GPRS is in the house in a room in the middle where the 3G signal always gets lost. Both Gen1 and Gen2 got 3G signal lost as soon as I was 3-4 meters away from the window, as it always happens on this network. Also the second picture on GPRS is done in the basement where 2G signal gets lost, that is the "best worse" signal I could get there, if I moved 20-30 Cm both Gen1 and Gen2 lost 2G signal. So I could not see any improvement in areas where the signal strength was at the limit.

My only explanation for the people saying that the signal is improved on Gen2 in zones with bad signal is that on Gen2 signal may get better on other 2G and 3G bands as the ones I have tested. As already stated, 2G tests have been done on 1800MHz and 3G on 2100MHz. Some carriers use 900MHz for 2G and in other countries carriers use this frequency for 3G too.

For the people stating that they have definitely better signal in zones with bad signal - what frequencies does the operator use?

Wifi does not get better on Gen2 as nothing gets changed. It's either the ROM or the Speedtest.net app.

I upgraded to GEN2 via wbaw's TPT method. What I have noticed is definite improved WiFi coverage, but more importantly I now instantaneously get HSDPA/HSUPA (the H signal on the notifcation bar) in an area that I could only just get a 3G signal (at home in the bedroom). Either something has been unlocked or there is a definite improvement in signal quality and strength.

This is the classical mistake I was talking about. People, one more time: HSDPA is being shown as 3G or 3G+ on some ROMs, it's just cosmetics. On the most 2.1 ROMs and some 2.2s HSDPA has been shown as 3G and 3G+, I have seen this on a few CM7 nightlies too. On CM7 and other ROMs, if you get shown H it does not mean you have HSUPA but that you have HSDPA! HSUPA refers to the bigger upload speeds (theoretically 5,76 Mbps compared to 384 Kbps) and has to be supported by your operator, you have to test that in a USB dongle or in another phone that supports HSUPA.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Rotmann

[Guest The Soup Thief]

so the next test would be to artificially attenuate the signal by placing both gens in a metal box and see which ones better?

But unless you climbed inside the box too, how would you know??

Sounds a bit like Heisenberg's cat, but with mobile telephones... Surely someone can weave a bit more wave-partical duality related reason into this thread

Maybe my phone has hsUpa, until I actually look at it or try to prove it in any way, at which point it reverts to GPRS

Sorry, i've nothing useful to contribute to this conversation other than an enthusiastic wish in the face of growing evidence to the contrary that something in all the fannying about we're doing actually has some benficial impact :mellow:

EDIT - nice idea for a thread title though

Edited May 4, 2011 by The Soup Thief

[Guest DrEzkimo]

i went to RLS5 gen1>gen2 and have noticed zero difference in signal strength or anything like that.

am in blackspot and get the same readings before as i do after.

no problems though and the TPT thing was quite easy. seem to have less issues with dial wakelock but have no updated to asop dialer so irrelevant comparison.

I have 2 phones in this house, should test them side by side, one is gen1 and mine is gen2

[Guest fonix232]

I'd add warranty as a 4th round, as in many countries, they haven't updated to Gen2 yet (great example is Hungary, the UK, and AFAIK, Poland neither has 2.2), and as there's no safe way to go back to Gen1, you're there with a broken phone if anything happens. Oh, and 5th round, updating process. Not the easiest way to do...

[Guest ZTE_Blade]

jus a quick question....i would like to know why there is a GEN1 and a GEN2? why even make a GEN2 if there no difference? must be somthing :mellow: or am i missing somthing :o

Thank you

[Guest fonix232]

jus a quick question....i would like to know why there is a GEN1 and a GEN2? why even make a GEN2 if there no difference? must be somthing :mellow: or am i missing somthing :o

Thank you

Gen2 is much more different, you should've read the thread...

[Guest geegeethatsme]

But unless you climbed inside the box too, how would you know??

Sounds a bit like Heisenberg's cat, but with mobile telephones... Surely someone can weave a bit more wave-partical duality related reason into this thread

Maybe my phone has hsUpa, until I actually look at it or try to prove it in any way, at which point it reverts to GPRS

Sorry, i've nothing useful to contribute to this conversation other than an enthusiastic wish in the face of growing evidence to the contrary that something in all the fannying about we're doing actually has some benficial impact :o

EDIT - nice idea for a thread title though

You're confusing uncertainty with paradox. It was Schrodinger's Cat. :mellow: I'll get me coat!

[Guest The Soup Thief]

I'd add warranty as a 4th round, as in many countries, they haven't updated to Gen2 yet (great example is Hungary, the UK, and AFAIK, Poland neither has 2.2), and as there's no safe way to go back to Gen1, you're there with a broken phone if anything happens. Oh, and 5th round, updating process. Not the easiest way to do...

yes there is

And sorry geegeethatsme - you're quite right - Schrodinger it was

I'm always getting my determinists and indeterminists jumbled [hangs head in shame]

Edit

Gen2 is much more different, you should've read the thread...

I disagree most strongly - clearly Gen1 more differenterer from Gen2 than Gen2 is from Gen1... :mellow:

Edited May 4, 2011 by The Soup Thief

[Guest LVL91]

HIDE YOUR IMEI on the photos!

Cool review btw :mellow:

Edited May 4, 2011 by LVL91

[Guest geegeethatsme]

I disagree most strongly - clearly Gen1 more differenterer from Gen2 than Gen2 is from Gen1... :mellow:

And there's the paradox!