HOW TO GET MONEY BACK FROM ORANGE DUE TO SPV FAULTS

[Guest mantrac]

Okay...

It took a few phonecalls of complaints to 150 and 156 but in the end I got what I wanted... and since I got it, it means you all can get it too!

So I'm sharing with you my complaints to Orange and how much money I got back for each as a gesture of good will...

1)

There is an ongoing problem with the absence of an SMS character counter and the fact that the SPV will send out concatenated text messages without alerting the user to this fact or making the user aware of how many messages exactly will be sent out.

This means that as much as a dot or a dash more than the SMS limit (160 chars) can end up costing people an extra SMS message.

If you go through your last bills and find such cases, circle them, highlight them to Orange and get them to re-calculate your bill.

Insist that the manual WHICH THEY REVISE AND PUBLISH UNDER THEIR LOGO, as well as the phone THE SOFTWARE OF WHICH THEY ALSO REVISE, CERTIFY/APPROVE AND PUBLISH UNDER THEIR BRAND NAME, never states anywhere that the phone will send out multiple messages.

Also, tell them that the phone offers no way of switching that feature off.

Total compensation value: I got £45.00 off them (£25.00 and then £20.00 on another call)

2)

The phone's forwarding menu either doesn't work (returns the Failed message) or if you do attempt to switch call forwarding off, it tells you that it's done it whereas in reality it didn't.

I went on a month-long trip to Asia, thinking that I had switched my voicemail off by canceling the call diverts and in reality I hadn't.

People ended up leaving messages which (when you're roaming) get charged to your phone.

Total compensation value: I got £25.00 off them

3)

Stuck voicemail indicator

Some times, the voicemail indicator will not go away. You call your voicemail and you find out that you haven't got any messages.

Still, you have been charged for the phonecall.

Total compensation value: I got £0.50 off them (for various such occasions)

Orange have almost entirely paid my last phone bill and if you don't believe me, wait a little until my next bill comes through and I'll scan and post it here!

Do it yourselves. You can and it's your right to dispute the charges!!

A call to 150 and 156 is free and it can end up giving you money back...

[Guest XPClone]

Do you get out much?

[Guest mantrac]

...with the extra 70 quid I got off them, I can assure you that I do!

[Guest mcfc2134]

How many "double messages" did you claim for??

[Guest mantrac]

How many "double messages" did you claim for??

Every single double (and triple and quadrouple) message I got charged for since the day I bought the SPV (back in November) up until the end of March...

It's a good few of them....

More than 300 (mind you, many of them were more expensive cause I had sent them while roaming - Orange refunded those too!).

[Guest madu]

Now that should make the buggers think about sticking that SMS char counter in there!! I know it's availible with DK2 but what help is it to other non-DK users?!?

That is totally fair!

[Guest mantrac]

Now that should make the buggers think about sticking that SMS char counter in there!! I know it's available with DK2 but what help is it to other non-DK users?!?

That is totally fair!

Well, the argument is that even though it will become available at some point in the future (and will probably still be buggy), it is not available so far and as a result of that, people have been charged for messages they can't control.

The muppets at custserv kept arguing that it is a FEATURE of the phone and therefore they can't reimburse be...

One idiot even suggested that even though concatenated messages are not mentioned in the manual, the fact that the manual says "Additional Products and Services apply, contact Orange" means that we might all be liable for other charges which we have to phone Orange to find out about...

HAVE MOST OF THE PEOPLE ORANGE EMPLOYS FOR CUSTOMER SERVICE EVEN BEEN TO SCHOOL???

How can I expect to have my problem solved by someone who can not tell the difference between the word "characters" and the word "characteristics"???

This woman kept repeating that the phone has a capacity for 160 characteristics...

Someone else even suggested that text messaging gets charged by the word!!!!!

I have also heard that SMSs get charged by the number of lines and other such crap...

WHAT A BUNCH OF CLOWNS!

Technical support that's not technical...

I even had someone from Orange's technical support say that if I double-press the send button, I'll get charged two messages!!!!

HAVE THESE IDIOTS EVEN SEEN WHAT AN SPV LOOKS LIKE, LET ALONE USE ITS MENU??????

[Guest ajb3000]

I can see you'll be trying to get a lot of refunds when the unlimited GPRS runs out due to the lack of a GPRS counter.

[Guest amo]

That being said, theres no voice calls counter so should orange refund you all your bill just because you didnt know how long you had spent on the fone and at which times to calculate the total cost? Should they boll*x! If your not willing to pay your bills, dont use the fone!

[Guest midnight]

so, you claim that you have got money off them as a gesture of good will, then call them clowns and idiots?

[Guest mantrac]

so, you claim that you have got money off them as a gesture of good will, then call them clowns and idiots?

Oh, the people at technical support are verified idiots with a golden crown!

The good will gesture was given to me by random custserv people who probably couldn't be arsed chasing this up for me...

What else would you call someone who tells you that the reason multiple messages appear on my bill is not because the SPV concatenates them but because I have sent Picture Messages (!!!) which are charged as two or three text messages.

At that point, I had already considered him ignorant, because the SPV does not support picture messaging (those little operator graphics etc.)

Has was only labeled an idiot and a muppet once he started insisting that the SPV does send picture messages (I asked him to clarify if he meant Photo Messages and he said that he didn't) and that i should hang up because we were going around in circles...

I am sorry mate but there's nothing in the world you can do to convince me that an alarming majority within Orange's tech and cust supp know just about enough, only to explain to you how to make a simple phonecall...

[Guest mantrac]

That being said, theres no voice calls counter so should orange refund you all your bill just because you didnt know how long you had spent on the fone and at which times to calculate the total cost? Should they boll*x! If your not willing to pay your bills, dont use the fone!

Yes there is a voice counter there!!

It counts every minute and every second as you speak...

So, knowing how many minutes you've spent and the charge per minute, you can calculate your cost.

In the case of GPRS, there is no counter on the phone...

Because of this, people have every right to dispute the charges since they themselves can not control or check the data usage and Orange won't tell them that either (I have tried finding out and they won't tell you until you receive a bill - thanks, I can read it myself!)

My solicitor says that we're covered on this one too unless they make a FREE utility available for download...

[Guest midnight]

hehe, which means you'll purposely hammer it and then claim back the money eh?

[Guest terminater2_uk]

you should move to america, they're good at fleecing over there.

[Guest simonastro]

I think mantrac has a very good point.

The main concern I have about being charged by the amount of data is all the pop up windows I never asked to look at and don't know how large they are, variable bitstreams on streaming media, etc.

Its quite reasonable to have a rough idea of how many call minutes I've used as I have a watch. I can count how many text messages I send if I can be arsed.

Having used my spv as a modem 4 my pc for a week now ( no land line ) I have downloaded megabytes of the same page just until I realised and set my browser not to refresh each page every time! - an easy mistake if you're used to broadband.

Orange can't provide a pop up/spam free service but why should I pay for something I haven't requested ?

At the mooted prices for data there is no way I will use PIE or other data services and will try to wean myself off mobile email.

I think Orange may have to rethink their pricing strategy - I don't think I will be the only one.

shame

[Guest midnight]

i dont think you can blame orange for popups do you :wink: popups have been an annoyance for years, and its getting worse. The annoying thing is, popups are a vital part of some websites, this one for example uses it for when you have a new PM.

The only way to combat the data usage would be a flat fee, but there is no way an unlimited usage flat fee will be anywhere near as cheap as £6 a month. I have a computer with broadband, why would i use my mobile for anything other than receiving mail and browsing the odd page here and there (mainly in emergencies), the basic £3 a month package would be fine for me. Only thing i would ask is that it would be possible to basically cut my phone off from gprs if i got to the £3 limit. Then switch me back on again the next month and start again, but hey, you cant have everything. Oh and there is third party gprs counters by the way.

[Guest amo]

On the earlier subject of voice call monitoring, yes most handsets have counters to state how many minutes u have used to call but dont specify at what time so u cant calculate how much ur bills are going to be. That was my point

[Guest scooper]

All i can do is laugh.

[Guest iliketoparty]

For counting SMS messages, why not just check the Sent Items folder? The number sent is in brackets...

...fair do's it includes emails as well, but just discount them. Clear out your folder once a month and bobs yer uncle! (and fanny's yer auntie). :wink:

Good idea to complain to orange though, it is crap how this happens with the texts. Don't know how many bloody 'blanks' i've sent in the past couple of weeks...have to just wait on my bill at the end of the month...

Party

[Guest Big Ron - No Longer a Mem]

Bottom line, if you're going to try this kind of stunt, try keeping your claims under £30. The reason is simple - that's the ceiling that a 152 (billing) operator is allowed to hand over without seeking permission, "no questions asked." It's easy for them to do it, (just press a couple of keys and type in the amount - the software even works out how big a refund to give making allowance for VAT!) and, bottom line, it's no skin off their nose. As long as they don't make a daily habit of giving away hundreds, nobody is going to even raise the issue with them. But £31 is a different matter - it's above the maximum amount that a basic clerk can refund, and it needs to be referred to a supervisor. Supervisors didn't get their exalted positions (and fractionally higher salaries) for being nice guys. They got there by (a) being able to FIND things in the notoriously chaotic support software database, and (:lol: being good "I voss only following orderss" company men and women. They're likely to politely tell you to piss off. So... try for a £29.99 "goodwill" refund. You're likely to get it!

[Guest midnight]

errr, and with them giving away this so called 'free' money it keeps our call prices high.

[Guest Richie M]

errr, and with them giving away this so called 'free' money it keeps our call prices high.

Exactly what i was thinking, if everyone did this :shock: bills would double ;)

I must be very lucky to be able to count upto 160 :lol:

(HINT: if i had 1 letter, and then typed another I would have 2 letters)

[Guest fraser]

Richie, you can't possibly be suggesting that everyone should count their SMS size! :lol: With a phone call, I know how long I've been on for because at some point when I was younger, I learned the difference between Mickey's big and little hands. It's immediatly obvious how long you have been on for, and whether the call comes out of your free minutes or not.

Breaching the 160 character count is far from obvious!! As you get charged a flat fee for them, you should be trying to use 159 characters every time to get your money's worth. :wink:

I think this is a perfectly valid complaint, and I will be seeking a refund myself. It will spurn them into fixing the problem and implementing a counter that works, which should be our goal here. Unfortunatly, the only language that corporations speak is money.

Now then, who's up for seeking refunds for every day that GPRS hasn't worked! :twisted:

[Guest Big Ron - No Longer a Mem]

Bear in mind though that they're ALSO giving you effectively unlimited emails (via GPRS WAP) of ANY length you want (no 165 character restriction) fir three months... for no charge, and £4 a month thereafter. Personally, I'd FAR rather send an email than an SMS - most of the people with whom I communicate are old enough to own their own computers....

[Guest Big Ron - No Longer a Mem]

Oh nearly forgot; when I DO send SMS messages, it's usually from my PC - it has a REAL QWERTY keyboard, the kind where to type "C", you press the "C" key rather than "1" three times. Try www.CBFSMS.com It's free, and it works. There's a "character counter" built in, and NO LIMIT to the number of SMS's you can send. (The only obvious limitation is that you can only send to UK mobile numbers.) Obviously, the SMS message doesn't show YOUR phone number... but with "unlimited messages", I simply send a fax-like cover page (cut and pasted from Notepad including my phone numbers - mobile and landline, plus email address) then the "real" message as a second SMS.