Guest PaulOBrien Posted January 16, 2015 Report Posted January 16, 2015 I mentioned it on the forum a little while ago now, but today I had the pleasure of meeting up with the hudl team at their smart London offices to talk about hudl, hudl 2 and their plans for the future.The hudl team themselves are a largely self contained group, with all of their capabilities under one roof so that as a team, they are able to maintain good links between all aspects of the hudl project, from the low level technical side to the customer feedback and user interaction aspects. The main thing that comes across from the team (aside from that they're a great bunch of people who know what they're talking about) is that there is a laser sharp focus on one thing - the customer experience. As you'd expect given Tesco's strengths in data with Clubcard, they know who's buying their devices, what they are using them for, what they like and what they don't.I went into the meeting armed with 2 key questions from forum members - the first around the battery charging issues that have plagued the device since launch and the second (inevitably) about the potential release of Lollipop on the device.There's excellent news on the battery problem front - it's been a tricky issue to nail down (and in fact caused by a combination of factors rather than one simple thing), but an update is rolling out now (in a staged fashion) which resolves this issue. This means that some owners already have it and if you don't, you will very soon. Having seen this problem personally, i'm very glad to hear this.On Lollipop, the team were pretty non-committal, but with good reason. Firstly, they haven't had an awful lot of time with the Lollipop source so it's something of an unknown quantity and secondly, given their prioritisation of user experience over everything else, there's a process to undertake to understand how Lollipop improves the customer experience, how important it is to customers and where it fits in their overall update strategy (Tesco are still working on updates - feature rather than OS - for the original hudl and the hudl 2).It's refreshing to learn from speaking to the team that although the hudl 2 has shipped now, they're not just always moving on to the next thing (which, given the success of hudl for Tesco will surely be a hudl 3) despite the fact they are a relatively small group.We spoke briefly and candidly about rooting, unlocking bootloaders and flashing alernate OS' and the response was as you would expect. Tesco themselves have obligations around shipping a secure device for the majority of their users who don't have an interest in hacking their devices and in that regard, nothing is likely to change. I guess we should be grateful that we can root, right?With the battery fix coming along, the great hardware and the newly-released rather nice official keyboard case, I think the hudl 2 still represents a very good value purchase, ridiculously so if you have Clubcard vouchers to spend. Now... having seen it in the flesh I think I might need to pick up an orange one... :)Footnote: Many of you asked about hudl's position in the Tesco business and the potential impact of the Blinkbox sale. Unsurprisingly, this wasn't something we were able to discuss. Apologies.Click here to view the item
Guest glossywhite Posted January 16, 2015 Report Posted January 16, 2015 Well done, Paul. It's refreshing to have human contact and to get straight answers.
Guest nybor Posted January 16, 2015 Report Posted January 16, 2015 Many thanks, Paul, for this very useful and informative post. The Hudl team may well claim they are 'able to maintain good links between all aspects of the hudl project, from the low level technical side to the customer feedback and user interaction aspects', as you put it. The experience of users here, however, has been very different. The posts on this forum show that Tesco customer support people who responded to questions from Modaco users first promised a software update for 15 December, then postponed it till 5 January, then denied all knowledge that such an update existed, then promised it for 19 January, and then started to roll it out without further announcement on 16 January. This is customer communication at its worst. Maybe the team you met does not have such good links with the customer-facing people as it thinks it has.
Guest PaulOBrien Posted January 16, 2015 Report Posted January 16, 2015 To be fair, the support is handled in contact centres until queries get to 3rd line. But yes, the update situation could definitely have been conveyed much better! P
Guest opensauce Posted January 16, 2015 Report Posted January 16, 2015 Still sounds like they bought oem support package, until something concrete like BSP appears Or we carry on plugging away at device without any input. If tesco really have IFWI tools then eclast touch duel boot bios not impossible or boot from micro sd.
Guest glossywhite Posted January 16, 2015 Report Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) I wonder if hackers and tinkering hobbyists ever stop to consider these devices in the context of what they really are: consumer grade consumption devices, and a gateway to Tesco products and services, in the hope that they will attract a revenue stream to them. To expect any help with modifying them beyond this is to be detached from reality and is beyond rational expectation. Tesco don't promote the hudl as a hacker friendly tablet - it is what it is, and if we want to hack it, that's fine, but expecting support that goes beyond Tesco tech support answering straight forward queries about its' functionality in the stock, consumer state, is just expecting a bit too much. Edited January 16, 2015 by glossywhite
Guest opensauce Posted January 17, 2015 Report Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) I wonder if hackers and tinkering hobbyists ever stop to consider these devices in the context of what they really are: consumer grade consumption devices, and a gateway to Tesco products and services, in the hope that they will attract a revenue stream to them. To expect any help with modifying them beyond this is to be detached from reality and is beyond rational expectation. Tesco don't promote the hudl as a hacker friendly tablet - it is what it is, and if we want to hack it, that's fine, but expecting support that goes beyond Tesco tech support answering straight forward queries about its' functionality in the stock, consumer state, is just expecting a bit too much. It's a disposable product at the price it is, after many meetings like Paul describes, my bs detector says it's a few apk on near stock rom and as tesco can't support instore IT- it leads me to believe they are likely to have little more than outsourced apks and may have diagnostic and reflash tools. Edited January 17, 2015 by opensauce
Guest glossywhite Posted January 17, 2015 Report Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) It's a disposable product at the price it is, after many meetings like Paul describes, my bs detector says it's a few apk on near stock rom and as tesco can't support instore IT- it leads me to believe they are likely to have little more than outsourced apks and may have diagnostic and reflash tools. Naturally, Sire. A disposable product for a disposable society with their disposable incomes... how very depressing. IBM ThinkPads would have none of this flimsy, consumer nonsense. I cannot imagine a "Tesco value" Android fork :P ~ Designed and made in China, picked from an OEM catalogue by a corporate manager in England, orders placed, a few APKs buolt and tweaked, mass produced, packed and shipped. I do not envisage a BRITISH team compiling and tweaking a Pegatron tablet - that's just a fairytale. The one thing I dislike about this tablet - and lest we forget, it's 2015 now... it's too blooming heavy and made my wrist ache!. The first Hudl was easily light enough, what gives with the weight? The girl at Tesco CS said the very same thing. Edited January 17, 2015 by glossywhite
Guest Desolutional Posted January 17, 2015 Report Posted January 17, 2015 Naturally, Sire. A disposable product for a disposable society with their disposable incomes... how very depressing. IBM ThinkPads would have none of this flimsy, consumer nonsense. I cannot imagine a "Tesco value" Android fork :P ~ Designed and made in China, picked from an OEM catalogue by a corporate manager in England, orders placed, a few APKs buolt and tweaked, mass produced, packed and shipped. I do not envisage a BRITISH team compiling and tweaking a Pegatron tablet - that's just a fairytale. The one thing I dislike about this tablet - and lest we forget, it's 2015 now... it's too blooming heavy and made my wrist ache!. The first Hudl was easily light enough, what gives with the weight? The girl at Tesco CS said the very same thing. Time to hit the gym? Many of these tablets are OEM from China, and the Chinese do most of the dev work as you say, which means a much lower amount of support for the platform itself.
Guest baronsaturday Posted January 17, 2015 Report Posted January 17, 2015 Good of them to give that time. My view has now come all the way round to "it is what it is and I accept that". The battery issue is huge but seems to be solved. Other than that, it's good value. Not the tablet I'd hoped it was but still good value.
Guest nybor Posted January 17, 2015 Report Posted January 17, 2015 I wonder if hackers and tinkering hobbyists ever stop to consider these devices in the context of what they really are: consumer grade consumption devices, and a gateway to Tesco products and services, in the hope that they will attract a revenue stream to them. To expect any help with modifying them beyond this is to be detached from reality and is beyond rational expectation. Tesco don't promote the hudl as a hacker friendly tablet - it is what it is, and if we want to hack it, that's fine, but expecting support that goes beyond Tesco tech support answering straight forward queries about its' functionality in the stock, consumer state, is just expecting a bit too much. I'm not aware that anyone here has seriously expected, let alone asked Tesco for, help with modifying the Hudl2.
Guest PaulOBrien Posted January 18, 2015 Report Posted January 18, 2015 Naturally, Sire. A disposable product for a disposable society with their disposable incomes... how very depressing. IBM ThinkPads would have none of this flimsy, consumer nonsense.You get what you pay for.~ Designed and made in China, picked from an OEM catalogue by a corporate manager in England, orders placed, a few APKs buolt and tweaked, mass produced, packed and shipped. I do not envisage a BRITISH team compiling and tweaking a Pegatron tablet - that's just a fairytale.Actually, you're doing the Tesco team a disservice here - the guys I met covered both the app layer on top of the tablet and the core OS too. More goes on internally than you might think (and actually, that manifests itself in the overall quality of the software build on the tablet which, battery issue aside, is impressive).The one thing I dislike about this tablet - and lest we forget, it's 2015 now... it's too blooming heavy and made my wrist ache!. The first Hudl was easily light enough, what gives with the weight? The girl at Tesco CS said the very same thing.Yeah, agreed, it's heavy. Or solid. ;)P
Guest Posted January 18, 2015 Report Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) You haven't lived until you own the orange one - when I first looked at the promo website and the colours - orange was the colour of choice for me. Just had to wait an extra day as 'only' orange was setup as an in-store or web order only. Edited January 18, 2015 by Guest
Guest mrrog Posted January 18, 2015 Report Posted January 18, 2015 I guess i'm more interested in the potential hudl phone, any snippets?
Guest stevehudl2 Posted January 19, 2015 Report Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) I know that you could not say if they did but I hope they at least hinted on the direction you need to go to unlock the bootloader. You know, a few unofficial technical comments between fellow developers. Was there meeting more to see what you were all about or was it to answer your questions? Did they ask you how you achieved root and did you give anything away? I'm more interested in the unlocked bootloader and custom recovery for the ability to back up and hard reset than the ability to install custom ROMs, if we do anything that makes it unstable once rooted were stuffed at the moment arent we? This is what makes me nervous about rooting although I did try at first but get the file size error on flash command, since it failed I've had time to think about other issues and wonder what is the situation if we need to do a full hard reboot? Regardless of where it is now its good to hear your still on it paul, keep up the good work! Edited January 19, 2015 by stevehudl2
Guest glossywhite Posted January 19, 2015 Report Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) I know that you could not say if they did but I hope they at least hinted on the direction you need to go to unlock the bootloader. You know, a few unofficial technical comments between fellow developers. Was there meeting more to see what you were all about or was it to answer your questions? Why would they do that? Their ONLY interest is selling it as a consumption and browsing portal. I think it is pretty obvious to anyone with a modicum of sense as to how business works, that they're about as likely to issue bootloader unlock keys as Apple are to release the source code for iOS. Tesco don't care about what you do to the device, but they're also not going to offer you any advice on how to pursue things outside the warranty and stock condition of the firmware of the hudl tablets, and to be honest, why would they? - once you open up that can of worms, it becomes a support nightmare, and it is totally unrealistic to expect that Tesco themselves would assist you, and totally unfeasable for them to employ people to advise you on that. This is a budget tablet - if you want to pursue unofficial modifications, then of course, do so - but you'll be out in the cold, on your own, as far as support or advice from Tesco."Unofficial technical comments" - made BY Tesco employees ABOUT a Tesco product, and one which is sold at a very low price in the hope that it will pay for itself through customer purchases made with it? That's insanity from a financial perspective; they're not idiots. This is a business - this is also Tesco, let us not be naive here, they don't care, since it's a shop front for them, and why should they care? I know I am stating the obvious, but if you want a product where the bootloader is fully unlockable and which has a large community of experts on the devices, there's FAR from a shortage of alternatives, and not necessarily much more expensive ones. :) Edited January 19, 2015 by glossywhite
Guest stevehudl2 Posted January 19, 2015 Report Posted January 19, 2015 Why would they do that? Their ONLY interest is selling it as a consumption and browsing portal. I think it is pretty obvious to anyone with a modicum of sense as to how business works, that they're about as likely to issue bootloader unlock keys as Apple are to release the source code for iOS. Tesco don't care about what you do to the device, but they're also not going to offer you any advice on how to pursue things outside the warranty of the hudl tablets, and to be honest, why would they? - once you open up that can of worms, it becomes a support nightmare, and it is totally unrealistic to expect that Tesco themselves would assist you, and totally unfeasable for them to employ people to advise you on that. This is a budget tablet - if you want to pursue unofficial modifications, then of course, do so - but you'll be out in the cold, on your own, as far as support or advice from Tesco. Note I said "unofficial" comments between fellow developers, I know that tesco would absolutely not release this info but I know if I was one of those real people chatting with Paul with a common interest in development I would drop a few hints on a hush hush basis, if I could help someone take something further than I was allowed I would.
Guest glossywhite Posted January 19, 2015 Report Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Note I said "unofficial" comments between fellow developers, I know that tesco would absolutely not release this info but I know if I was one of those real people chatting with Paul with a common interest in development I would drop a few hints on a hush hush basis, if I could help someone take something further than I was allowed I would. I understand a lot more than possibly you assume I do; why would they? He's not their "friend", and they owe him nothing - he's one person in a neutral position, and Tesco are a corporate giant, and this is their revenue stream. I think you may be a little naive, with utmost respect. Maybe you're optimistic, and I cannot knock that - it makes me happy to see people with a positive spirit toward unlocking it, but it's about as likely to happen as £10 notes are to come flowing out of my cold water taps :P - the person responsible for the "leak" would soon be discovered, and they have a livelihood, and maybe a family to feed - why would, or SHOULD they risk their career (probably a rather well paid one at that) just to help a few bods on a relatively low profile mobile hacking enthusiast's forum? :/ Hey, IF it is "leaked" or manages to be discovered, BRAVO... that would be very very exciting :D - I am just saying not to hold one's proverbial breath, you see? Edited January 19, 2015 by glossywhite
Guest stevehudl2 Posted January 19, 2015 Report Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) At no point did I suggest anything about your level of knolege, I simply spoke about hope of a pointer although at least one of your comments in a previous post have been corrected by Paul. Why so aggressive? Chill out and stop ranting at me Regardless of what You would do, I know that I would personally do it if it were me and I think a lot of people that do things but have there hands tied when it comes to how far they are allowed to go would do the same, I mean in anything and not necessarily software development. Edited January 19, 2015 by stevehudl2
Guest glossywhite Posted January 19, 2015 Report Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) At no point did I suggest anything about your level of knolege, I simply spoke about hope of a pointer although at least one of your comments in a previous post have been corrected by Paul. Why so aggressive? Chill out and stop ranting at me Regardless of what You would do, I know that I would personally do it if it were me and I think a lot of people that do things but have there hands tied when it comes to how far they are allowed to go would do the same, I mean in anything and not necessarily software development. I'm sorry if it came across as me lecturing you - that wasn't the case I promise, I just make my comments very strongly and passionately so that there is NO misunderstanding about my point (since there is SO much terrible grammar and ambiguity online) - I don't mean to offend. :) I am extremely relaxed - at no point during the typing of ANY of the above, was I annoyed or stressed; that's just me making sure I make the point - it's my style, sometimes I curb it more, sometimes I go all out. Sorry if you took offence. It's a non-issue anyway, they didn't give him the key. End. Edited January 19, 2015 by glossywhite
Guest stevehudl2 Posted January 19, 2015 Report Posted January 19, 2015 I'm sorry if it came across as me lecturing you - that wasn't the case I promise, I just make my comments very strongly and passionately so that there is NO misunderstanding about my point (since there is SO much terrible grammar and ambiguity online) - I don't mean to offend. :) I am extremely relaxed - at no point during the typing of ANY of the above, was I annoyed or stressed; that's just me making sure I make the point - it's my style, sometimes I curb it more, sometimes I go all out. Sorry if you took offence.It's a non-issue anyway, they didn't give him the key. End. OK, were cool then.
Guest PaulOBrien Posted January 19, 2015 Report Posted January 19, 2015 Calm down glossywhite... you don't know as much about what goes on as you think you do...!P
Guest welshblob Posted January 19, 2015 Report Posted January 19, 2015 Calm down glossywhite... you don't know as much about what goes on as you think you do...!<<< This is the bit I'm reading here >>> P I've highlighted the bit i'm reading above, if you know what I mean ;-) ... or maybe its wishful thinking.
Guest glossywhite Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Calm down glossywhite... you don't know as much about what goes on as you think you do...! P Ok dear. :) Edited January 20, 2015 by glossywhite
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