MS Smartphone officially dumped by T-Mobile

[Guest ContactBot]

"We have decided not to introduce this phone," a T-Mobile spokesman said on the sidelines of a Deutsche Telekom news conference. "For the time being, we are not pursuing this project further."

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msmobiles.com

[Guest mantrac]

T-Mobile ditches Microsoft

Says Smartphone is duff

By Staff at the Newsdesk: Thursday 15 May 2003, 14:40

EXECS AT Microsoft might have to go back to the drawing board over the Vole's Smartphone plans if a report on Reuters is correct. It says that T-Mobile has decided to ditch its Microsoft Smartphone based handset because of "fundamental problems."

According to the report, the problems with the Microsoft designed systems were leading to unacceptably high failure rates. T-Mobile even says that it will not pursue the project further.

T-Mobile will be yet another major loss for Microsoft and it could well spell the end of the Vole's mobile phone ambitions. Mix it in with the way that Sendo says it has been treated and the mobile industry starts to look like it will be keeping Microsoft at a distance.

This will be a huge cause for celebration at Symbian and amongst the big handset manufacturers. They have been saying that the mobile market is complicated and that you need combined experience to really make it. They could well be right.

[Guest spacemonkey]

And in a market such as cellphones you can be sure the likes of Nokia and Sony will have put pressure on people such as T-Mobile that make them more ready to find problems with M$ Smartphone... (or am I just overly cynical).

So the current iteration of smartphone devices, tanager and spv aren't perfect, they're first generation, it's to be expected. And look at the failure rates of some of the nokia's and Sony's, problem is you can't reject a Nokia phone because you're allready commited to their brand for all the other handsets. Same as the whole Orange certification issue, they weren't ever gonna implement certification on Symbian due to the strong position the hardware venders allready hold in the Symbian market, where as Microsoft and HTC with a single handset were an easy target because they have zero leverage to use on Orange.

I'm just calling it the way I see it and as ever most of my views are probably wrong :)

[Guest Chic0]

I absolutely agree with you Spacemonkey. I really think that Nokia probably put pressure on T-Mobile.

If things comtinue for Microsft the way it is going now, do you think they might scrap the idea of making Smartphones? That would be a real shame as I really feel this is the best handset ever made. Ok, I may be biased cause I actually own an SPV, but I've never had a phone as sophisticated as this. It is amazing to think that this is the first of it's kind. I mean there were a few problems when it was first released, but as you say, Nokia has had problems with their phones for years and they still kept on selling them. That's why they are being sued in the US becuase of faulty 8210s.

Hopefully Microsoft will go one better with SP2003. :)

[Guest Paul [MVP]]

I can't imagine MS scrapping SmartPhones!

P

[Guest spacemonkey]

MS won't dump it... and besides they are so big they can afford to lose money on it for a long time :)

Hell, the only part of Microsoft that really makes big profits is windows and office...

[Guest adam]

If what you say about pressure from the likes of nokia is true, smartphones must be doing their profits some damage. Therefore, it would be wise of Microsoft to keep making them!

[Guest Big Ron - No Longer a Mem]

"MS won't dump it... and besides they are so big they can afford to lose money on it for a long time"

Micro$oft, thanks to having entered an agreement to fix security holes in their "passport" setup - and having failed to do so - now face the nasty part of the agreement: a fine for every security hole. Those fines could total $1.4 TRILLION dollars. Even by Microsoft standards.... that's quite a LOT of dollars. Given the crap they've been getting away with, relatively unscathed, over the years, they may finally be forced to submit to accept a punishment - one that they agreed to in advance. If they were an OIL corporation, they'd get away with it. But "software" isn't the magic word with the current administration.

[Guest adam]

So thats how George W. is paying for his tax cuts, and the all important world domination!!

[Guest Big Ron - No Longer a Mem]

"So thats how George W. is paying for his tax cuts, and the all important world domination!!"

One of the BIG changes due to take place in Iraq, and not widely published (although I cannot understand why!!!) is the change of "reserve currency" from the Euro to the dollar. Dollars, outside of the USA, represent an interest free loan to the USA. You "sell" something that has worth (like oil!) to the US... they either give you goods that are worth something in exchange... OR a piece of paper that says "I promise to pay..." If the Central Bank of Iraq is going to have truckloads of those pieces of paper stashed away, then as long as they remain IN Iraq, nobody calls in the debt.

[Guest nickcornaglia]

I purchased a Smartphone for use her in the US and am not having any trouble under T-Mobile. As a matter of fact, I get better service with this phone than my old T68m.

Could Microsoft just sell the phones (Unlocked) themselves or sell thru a distributor other than the Phone Companies?

What does Orange really offer to the phone other than updates? Microsoft could just provide updates over the web.

Direct phone sales, bypassing the Network providers...now that would be innovative.

In the US, I vow never to buy another phone locally as the phones in Europe are way more advanced by at least a year and there is more variety. So there's one customer, Microsoft! Anyone else wanna sign my petition???

If anyone believes I am making a valid point I would start a poll asking if users would buy a phone directly from Microsoft, bypassing the Network Providers? I'll bet you'd get 90% in favor!

[Guest yoos]

I agree Cornaglian. Is there anything we can do to help make all that happen?

[Guest Big Ron - No Longer a Mem]

"What does Orange really offer to the phone other than updates? Microsoft could just provide updates over the web. "

Generally speaking, (although the SPV seems to be the exception!) "what Orange supplies" that makes a difference worth having is firmware, and quality control. I think that by dangling the words "Exclusive" and "World's First!" in front of them, Orange got sold a deal over which they excercised a LOT less control than they usually do (AND a lot less of the credit for the SPV than they've since claimed.) Normally, they insist on their OWN firmware modifications, AND extensive testing; so if you were offered a Nokia by T-Mobile, Orange, O2 or Vodaphone, the Orange one was likely to give less problems.

They also offer "infrastructure". When your phone goes wrong, you're going to phone Microsoft for support? Let me say that again... MICROSOFT FOR SUPPORT? You might as well phone the speaking clock.

[Guest nickcornaglia]

Then sell them like PDAs are sold.

HP could brand them and add them to their lineup.

I believe the hardware manufacturers of the of iPaqs and the SPV are one in the same...HTC.

I can see it now...

*everything getting cloudy*

BOB: "Hey what's that???", pointing at the bulge in Jerry's pants pocket.

MARY: "It's the new iPaq SPV Smartphone...I just picked it up at my local electronics megastore, popped in my SIM and WALLA!...my new phone!"

BOB: "Wow! I'm gonna go there right now and get one too, because my network provider was shortsighted and didn't want to distibute the phone themselves!"

MARY: "Capitalism! I love it! And I love YOU! Let's go have sex!"

BOB: "Okay!" *go running hand in hand thru the barley fields*

The End!

[Guest spacemonkey]

Phones need to be sold through the Telcos for one simple reason.

It makes them CHEAP. I could buy an iPAQ for £300 or a spv for £30 with a twelve month connection. If I bought my SPV equivalent through HP I'd be paying the full £300-400 for it and it would be worth it.

Look at Nokia's anouncement of a portable games device/phone. They've been mocked for it's price tag of $300US (or whatever) and that that will never be competative with gameboy advance etc. But it will, cos no consumer will pay $300US for it, they'll pay £50 with a connection at vodafone.

[Guest lucky]

Damnit man dont you have a credit card?!

I sure as hell can spot that its the same difference over 12mths.

I would much rather have the phone i want on the provider i want.

What sux is they charge you the same line rental one way or the other

Salesperson: here have a subsidised handset at 30quid/mth.

Me: its ok i dont want the handset.

Salesperson: thatll be 30quid/mth then.

#@$? !!! you then

Dont give me that line of oh its cheaper its the say its just a well organised monopoly.

RANT GESTICULATE RANT ETC 8)

[Guest morpheus2702]

Back on topic...

Look at the history of Smartphone - hyped since August 2002, with Sendo Z100 as the front runner and Orange working quietly in the background. Get to December and literally days from launch, Sendo pull out citing problems with MMS integration (as I recall - correct me if wrong).

Now that seemed a small reason for what was a phenomenally amazing turnabout for Sendo, to say in the same press release they were going to use the Nokia platform instead. Even with MS buying a stake in Sendo!

Tanager - hinted at by MS and T-Mobile in February, and subsequently routed out shortly afterwards. Then a lot of rumblings between MS, HTC, Orange and T-Mobile as to when, where, how and who.

Tanager appears in T3 last month, in Orange guise stating release in April. And then what? Nothing. No Orange, and now no T-Mobile.

What I am getting at here is that a three players have turned away from various implementations of the Smartphone platform either for spurious or no reason whatsoever. The resources that go into publicising and hyping these products is huge - to delay is bad enough, to appear not to know what's happening is worse - to U turn is terrible.

So what's behind this? I don't think it is pressure from Nokia but something fundamental. I haven't got a clue what but it's fun to speculate!

[Guest Big Ron - No Longer a Mem]

I keep mentioning... maybe people don't believe me? that MY preferred way to "do" phones is via a refurb'ed "SIM-free phone" that *I* own outright, unsubsidized, and a "Phone-free SIM" that reflects in its price that it is NOT subsidizing the phone price. OK, so you have to hunt to find either type of deal, but they CAN be found. "Unimobiles" or "Easyfonecoms" for the handsets, www.scancom.co for the SIMs. £40ish gets you a reasonably good mobile, £10 gets you a pair of O2 SIMs - and £3.54 gets you 60 minutes of free talk time a month. That's a running cost of £80-ish for a year, INCLUDING buying the phone, and paying for an hour a month of "Anytime" calls.

The idea that Smartphone has been turned down on "spurious" grounds is kind of self-deluding. If we ignore the problems that the SPV has had, it STILL represents a whole new marketplace -with its own new problems - as Orange has discovered. This forum is littered with comments describing the tech support they get as "muppets", "Useless" and so on. Tech support is, and always has been, geared to PHONES, not "phones that think they're computers". The cost of providing adequate support simply isn't worth the income that the phones generate. The Telcos might also regard the Smartphone as a "niche" product - the "niche" being a temporary stopgap between G2 and G3. G3 is already with us. The smartphone might be regarded as "a better flintlock"... after the percussion lock has arrived.

[Guest Gorskar]

Ron, yes thats definately sensible, although if you do that you will have to put up with not having a smartphone of course. Still, when my contract runs out I might consider doing as you suggest... moneywise it would certianly be the wise thing to do.

As for T-mobile dropping the smartphone, can we please stop talking about this, as theres already a news item on www.msmobiles.com where T-mobile say they have NOT dropped it.

[Guest Big Ron - No Longer a Mem]

Ron, yes thats definately sensible, although if you do that you will have to put up with not having a smartphone of course.

There seem to be plenty of people on this forum who "want a smartphone", but won't/can't pay for GPRS... leaving them with... Einstein's not-too-smart twin brother? (LOOKS just like the great, man, but that's as far as it goes) If I wanted what the SPV offers (aside from "glitz") I'd probably buy a "brand new, unissued, protective film still stuck to the screen" original Nokia 9000 - for £70 + £5 delivery. Or Maybe a Siemens SL45 (for a fiver less) The former would let me "browse the web" send/recieve emails (and by not using GPRS!), AND it has a real QWERTY keyboard! the SL45 includes an MP3 player, vibrating alert, dictaphone, speakerphone (one that's accurately described in the manual!) My wife invested £150 in a SIM free Handspring Treo. It synch's with her laptop, runs PALM software without decertifying it first, it's got a MUCH bigger screen than the SPV (albeit black and grey!) and although it's wider than an SPV, it's also a lot thinner. She loves it.

Dropping the Tanager... not dropping it. Sounds like an insurance fraud to me. Maybe they only dropped it gently, from a low height?!

[Guest ukpauls]

Back to the comment about microsoft dropping the SPV, if we have lernt 1 thing from microsoft that is that they dont like to give up on something, for example XBox (makes them a loss but they still pump money into it).

so i dont think they will be giving up on this idea, if anything i think its T-Mobile's loss as i resently moved from t-moile to orange cos of the SPV and believe that the one reason that a lot of others dont is the fact of not knowing about it..

For example I've shown about 5 people that after seeing the SPV want to purchase one, but never heard of it before.

I think that buying on contract is better than as a palm (in one big payment) as i can afford £40-£50 month, but not (£300) in one go.. Student you see(skint)

[Guest ukpauls]

and sorry also believe that the worse thing that orange have done is the prices of GPRS, if they sort that i would be in love

[Guest morpheus2702]

Sure, Microsoft will keep plugging away at it - I mean, the can afford to go head to head with Sony on consoles, so they sure as hell can see off the relative minnows in mobiles.

On a different note, has anyone got on with a Palm after having a PPC? I have a Clie for 4 months but just couldn't get used to the OS!

[Guest ukpauls]

you still got it, if its that hard i'll take it off your hands :wink:

[Guest morpheus2702]

Sorry mate, already done deal - cash in my pocket, SPV arriving Monday!