Guest paradox ewan Posted May 31, 2003 Report Posted May 31, 2003 Im planning on calling orange on monday re the GPRS bundle charges. To be followed by a letter. Please feel free to add you name below, and we can show orange just how P***ED off we are.
Guest awarner [MVP] Posted May 31, 2003 Report Posted May 31, 2003 How about no but I cancelled anyway? also the option for looking for a cheaper service provider? if you are refering to GPRS then you would be out of luck :lol:
Guest mattat Posted May 31, 2003 Report Posted May 31, 2003 There's also "No I'm not happy with the prices, but I can just about afford to pay them if I am very careful with my useage" And I'm sure polls like this have been done lots of times before.
Guest drblow Posted June 2, 2003 Report Posted June 2, 2003 Look - there is SO MUCH complaint about GPRS! My own opinion is that the gprs service is pathetic. Apart from the pending price increase, there is still alot of complaints on the forum about gprs not working. People are still getting stuck on dialling..., still getting 'unable to place call' etc etc. Every time I use my gprs, I get about 2 or 3 pages and then get disconnected. Sometimes it will dial up again straight away, sometimes it won't, blah blah blah!! I know this is a poll about the price changes, but it's all interconnected innit?? Is everybody else happy with their gprs?? Does anybody here feel that it is good value for money?? Can anybody possibly justify paying the new gprs tarrifs?? It seems to me that the whole debate about prices has sidetracked us all from the fundamental flaws there seem to be in the gprs service. As I mentioned in another thread, if people are intending to continue using gprs after the price increase - are you going to complain to Orange CS EVERY time there is a problem with the gprs service (think about it - £3 per mb for a service that disconnects every 2 pages, gets stuck half the time, phone needs reset in order to connect!!!!!). If I complained to Orange every time I had a problem with gprs, I would never have time to do anything else! Am I the only 1 feeling this way???
Guest superkingdave Posted June 2, 2003 Report Posted June 2, 2003 Apart from the pending price increase, Price increase? The only change in gprs is the cut which orange announced a few months ago. If a supermarket offered a 3 for 2 one week and stopped the next would you call that a price increase?
Guest drblow Posted June 3, 2003 Report Posted June 3, 2003 Price increase? The only change in gprs is the cut which orange announced a few months ago. If a supermarket offered a 3 for 2 one week and stopped the next would you call that a price increase? :lol: :D No m8!! Don't be silly! But I would object to the supermarket telling me that the promotion was going to be replaced by something even better - and then just not doing it!! And the supermarket don't have you tied in to a 12 month contract do they?? :wink: At least with the supermarket, if you don't like it, you can go to another store without having to pay penalties for getting out of your contract!! I was one of the people who were told intially that the gprs promo would be replaced by one of 'the same or better value'. In fact, it was a condition of getting the phone at the price I got it that I signed up for the gprs promo - and the salesman went to great length to explain to me the benefits of gprs, including a good speel about how the prices would come down after the promo etc etc. I also had this confirmed to me several times by Orange CS staff - who said the same 'same or better value' line. I asked one of them did they have that in writing & was told yes (approx April 03). What I object to is being sold a service on the basis of a verbal agreement (confirmed later by CS) about the gprs promo being replaced by 'better value' - and then have that promise just vanish into thin air when it comes time for the promo to end. & to go from having unlimited (10mb) gprs for £6 (60p per mb), to paying £2 or 3 per mb is just too much for me! Maybe if Orange had put the prices up slightly - say even £1.50 per mb - I might not have been so annoyed. But I use gprs quite alot & it's going to be prohibitively expensive for me now. I just feel cheated because I bought the phone partly because of the gprs (& the fact that I had assurances from Orange staff about the pricing) - and now they have just totally gone back on what they said. Companies can't just go around saying stuff to get you to buy a product, & then just not do it. If you are contractually obliged to stay with them as service provider for 12 months, then why are they allowed to just go back on pricing promises made by their staff?? And I don't care if anyone thinks that staff will just say anything to get you to buy a phone, & you should know better than to trust them ... etc. As far as I'm concerened, when I buy something - the sales person is representing the entire company to me, & if they promise something, then it had better be true, otherwise they are clearly out of order!
Guest Hax Posted June 4, 2003 Report Posted June 4, 2003 No m8!! Don't be silly! But I would object to the supermarket telling me that the promotion was going to be replaced by something even better - and then just not doing it!! And the supermarket don't have you tied in to a 12 month contract do they?? :wink: At least with the supermarket, if you don't like it, you can go to another store without having to pay penalties for getting out of your contract!! I was one of the people who were told intially that the gprs promo would be replaced by one of 'the same or better value'. In fact, it was a condition of getting the phone at the price I got it that I signed up for the gprs promo - and the salesman went to great length to explain to me the benefits of gprs, including a good speel about how the prices would come down after the promo etc etc. " Have to say that I got my SPV from an online store, but made sure I read about the SPV "promotion" pack which I *had* to get. In amongst the blurb, it did say that when the promo pack ended I would be placed on a GPRS tarrif of the same or lower cost. Have to say that I do not share the same sentiments of all these people who are saying that they've been "ripped" off, regardless of what you were told verbally. If you were about to sign a credit agreement (and this is basically the same thing - you are tied in to make payments for a period!) that offered you 0% APR (according to the salesperson), you'd read the small print first wouldn't you and look for catches? Obviously, the catch is that the interest rate returns to a higher one at the end of the "promotional" period. Same applies here.... Hax
Guest drblow Posted June 5, 2003 Report Posted June 5, 2003 you'd read the small print first wouldn't you and look for catches? Obviously, the catch is that the interest rate returns to a higher one at the end of the "promotional" period. Same applies here.... Hax No way m8! If a sales person in a shop offers you a deal verbally, that should mean that it is the truth! The whole idea of 'caveat emptor' - 'let the buyer beware' - kinda disappeared with the Romans, you know!! As you said yourself, you read in the small print that the promo would be replaced by one of equal or lower value! So even if I had read the small print, it would have said the same thing! So, I mean, how much dishonesty does it take to actually annoy you?? If you were told this deal would be replaced by one of better value, and also read that in your contract small print - why do you not feel ripped off?? Basically, Orange have said 'here, get this great deal, and we'll replace it in a few months with something of better value' - and then just totally disregarded this statement, and put us all on a pricing structure which is definately not better value! I just don't understand how you can feel that this is in any way fair or reasonable. Do you really believe that for every single thing you buy that you should read the small print to confirm what the staff told you!!?? Does that mean that in your opinion it is acceptable for staff in a store to tell you blatent lies, just to get you to sign up for a deal, knowing full well that the deal is not what they are saying?? Beats me why anybody feels any different to me!?! Or maybe Orange were depending on the typical British attitude of just letting companies walk all over you!?
Guest ajb3000 Posted June 5, 2003 Report Posted June 5, 2003 if you have a copy of the promotion terms and conditions, i suggest you read them carefully. what it said was after the promotion you will be placed on a capped gprs tariff with an equivalent or lower cost monthly fee. it said nothing about the per MB cost being cheaper.
Guest Hax Posted June 5, 2003 Report Posted June 5, 2003 As you said yourself, you read in the small print that the promo would be replaced by one of equal or lower value! So even if I had read the small print, it would have said the same thing! So, I mean, how much dishonesty does it take to actually annoy you??NO - I did not say that I'd read equal or lower value, but "same or lower cost" - these are quite different! I just don't understand how you can feel that this is in any way fair or reasonable. I don't think that the pricing is reasonable, but I *do* think that Orange have been reasonable in that they are going to put me on a tarriff which costs less than the SPV pack - this is what I always expected when the PROMOTIONAL period ran out. And let's face it, the promo period has been extended by quite a generous amount (of time!) Do you really believe that for every single thing you buy that you should read the small print to confirm what the staff told you!!?? Does that mean that in your opinion it is acceptable for staff in a store to tell you blatent lies, just to get you to sign up for a deal, knowing full well that the deal is not what they are saying??No I don't think that staff should "tell lies" so-to-speak. But what must be remembered is that the staff you are talking to will not be lawyers and quite possibly will not have the best understanding of the language that they are speaking anyway. On top of that, all languages are changing and adapting, so it is easy to mistake "same or lower cost" with "equal or better value" - as you yourself have done! In actual fact, you said "same or lower value" - in which case, Orange's new tarriffs will be of *lower* value compared to the value you got from the promotional pack. However, as for reading the small print, yes I do believe that for every contract that you enter into you should read the small print - after all, these are legally binding contracts and it is in *your* interest to do so. Beats me why anybody feels any different to me!?! Or maybe Orange were depending on the typical British attitude of just letting companies walk all over you!? I don't think this is the case. Orange quite specifically made no mention of "value" (as far as I can remember) and you can be sure that their lawyers would have checked this for loopholes before making the offer available. If this has been misinterpreted by the staff at the Orange (or other company) store that you bought your SPV from, then that is unfortunate, but that does not change the fact that the terms and conditions of the offer were very clearly laid out, in writing. We all knew this was a "promotional" offer and so to then expect the promotional offer to be bettered is just ludicrous! The promotion then becomes the "rip-off", not the new tariffs! To be honest, Orange give a 14 day no quibble cooling off period during which you can return a phone to them and only owe for the airtime that you have used. If during this period you haven't checked out important things such as what happens when the promo period finishes, that really is your own fault - no-one else to blame (IMHO of course!) Yeah, I can see why some people feel cheated, but that doesn't mean that I think that they're right to feel that way or wrong to feel that way. If anything, a complaint should be lodged about the fact that the asles staff mislead you, not about Orange "unfairly" increasing the cost of the GPRS, they are completely within their right to do that. Anyway, I didn't come here to start a flame war (or a war of any kind) just to voice my opinion that I don't feel I'm being ripped off. I do think that the GPRS prices are too high and are bad value, especially when compared to my £23.44 a month 512kbs ADSL connection I have at home. But as no-one else offers any better prices for mobiles, then there's very little choice, other than to not use GPRS... Now, must remember to switch to the PAYG GPRS tarriff this evening before my next bill is produced! :lol: Hax
Guest Will Posted June 5, 2003 Report Posted June 5, 2003 Just to throw a large spanner into the works, A few days ago I rang up billing to ask to be transferred to the 3 month free Email trial (from memory 10meg/month free). :lol: Was told that my gprs promo WAS NOT expiring on the 22nd (my June billing date), on further questioning, it is due to expire in the year 2999! 8) And that the £6 charge would be added as usual to my next bill, as normal. :oops: Asked the nice billing guy to make a note to this effect on my account.. :wink: So now i'll wait for my next bill :D Might be worth making the same call??? who knows.. :? Will -appologies for the smiley overload!
Guest Rob.P Posted June 5, 2003 Report Posted June 5, 2003 The whole idea of 'caveat emptor' - 'let the buyer beware' - kinda disappeared with the Romans, you know I wouldn't be so sure about that, it's the "buyer beware" attitude that is letting most comapnies walk all over the public, due to the current society we live I always walk into a deal with my eyes wide open, even if it's the queen offering me the deal. Somebody always has an angle and will if they can try and shaft you, cynical I know but who can we blame for this attitude towards shoppers?
Guest Posted June 5, 2003 Report Posted June 5, 2003 Was told that my gprs promo WAS NOT expiring on the 22nd (my June billing date), on further questioning, it is due to expire in the year 2999! 8) Hmmm.... I wondered why I hadn't recieved one of those "£6 deal is ending" letters. :lol: Anyone else not recieved one yet? (Just to further muddy the waters!)
Guest drblow Posted June 5, 2003 Report Posted June 5, 2003 Hax - You can take whatever view of this you choose obviously - but I still feel that however you wrap it up - the Orange sales staff who sold me the phone, & Orange CS satff after that, lead me to believe that the gprs tariff would be replaced by an equal or better one - which it quite clearly isn't! And they did mention 'value' to me. In fact I had a long conversation with a girl from Orange CS in April about the exact meaning of her saying 'equal or better value' and was assured that they meant that the new tariff would be £6 for 10mb or better. I mean, basically I can see that you can justify what Orange have said to yourself ... same value/cost etc - but I mean, did the original statement not lead you to believe that there would be a better gprs tariff than the one we are supposed to be going on to?? Do you honestly think that because the tariff is lower in 'cost' (even tho it's ridiculously lower in 'value') that makes it all OK?? Sorry m8, but I feel very strongly about this, and I'm not trying to be insulting or anything, but to me it is exactly your kind of attitude to this problem that allows companies like Orange to get away with this kind of stuff. Thay just know that most people will just accept it, or else justify it in some way as being their own fault for not reading the small print.
Guest hotphil Posted June 5, 2003 Report Posted June 5, 2003 I'm not a regular contributer to this forum but am sure to read it every day, it's rare that I'll do a post, but on this issue I feel strongly. In a nutshell Orange are going to kill the SPV and GPRS with it by silly pricing. Do they really want another WAP? My business doesn't pay for my mobile. I paid £100 for handset. They paid x amount for GPRS systems (interestingly enough one of them is on the roof of my workplace) yet they seem determined to get rid of me. Surely my phone bills over the last 6 years show that I like the network. Yes, I accept that the 6 month 'unlimited' deal was a good'un, but now I am gonna cancel my GPRS as I no longer can really justify it. It's a nice to have and it's not like I sit there for hours d/loading s*** (I've got a broadband connectin for that), I just have it checking my mails every two hours - surely that's not a piss-take (and costs them bugger all)? Three of mates bought SPV's having seen mine. I can guarantee that at least 30 of my mates will hear that Orange are being completely s*** as far as personal users are concerned. Orange seem intent on killing the SPV with GPRS for Personal users by pricing it at stupid levels. P
Guest Hax Posted June 5, 2003 Report Posted June 5, 2003 I can see where you're coming from drblow, and if you were assured on several occasions that the SPV pack would be replaced by another pack that offered a better price per megabyte than the promo offered, I can understand why you feel as strongly about this as you do. However, not meaning to bang on about this, but at the end of the day, it is your responsibility to check that the contracts that you sign meet your own levels of acceptance. I mean, basically I can see that you can justify what Orange have said to yourself ... same value/cost etc - but I mean, did the original statement not lead you to believe that there would be a better gprs tariff than the one we are supposed to be going on to?? Do you honestly think that because the tariff is lower in 'cost' (even tho it's ridiculously lower in 'value') that makes it all OK??No, quite frankly the original statement never did lead me to believe that the cost for GPRS after the promo period had finished would be anywhere near as good value as the promo period itself (you only had to have a brief look at Oranges GPRS charges at the time - much larger than they are now!). And yes, I do think that because the "new" tarriff is lower in cost that makes it ok as that is what I knew from the outset - one the promo pack finished, I knew that I would be put onto a bundle costing less than (or equal to) the promo pack. Orange were (just cancelled GPRS this evening) going to put me onto a tariff that would have cost me £4 per month - £2 per month less than the cost of the promo pack. As originally stated in the Orange T's & C's. Sorry m8, but I feel very strongly about this, and I'm not trying to be insulting or anything, but to me it is exactly your kind of attitude to this problem that allows companies like Orange to get away with this kind of stuff. Thay just know that most people will just accept it, or else justify it in some way as being their own fault for not reading the small print. Likewise, not meaning to sound insulting or anything, but it is people that take your stance on issues such as these and who don't take the time to look out for themselves that have caused the "inflated" and ridiculous lawsuit cases in the States, with claims such as the one made against McDonalds because a customer burnt themselves by spilling their own "hot" coffee over themselves - I mean, how can that possibly be McDonald's fault? Common sense tells you that if you order a hot drink, then it is going to be hot! Likewise, common sense should tell you that for something to be a "promotion" it is going to be offering something that you won't normally get (i.e. 10MB GPRS for £6 per month when normal costs are £4 per month). A previous example given is the buy one get one free promotions that run in supermarkets all the time - no-one expects this value to be matched once the promotional period has finished (or do they?!?!?!). What it boils down to at the end of the day is that the small print should *always* be read. There have been hundreds of cases of people not reading small print in credit card applications, insurance policies or even double glazing contracts! One of the most common grumbles people have is with the buy now pay later scenario, where they are told that they can pay the outstanding balance in 12 months or go onto monthly payments. What a lot of people don't realise (and this often isn't made clear by the sales staff) is that if they are just one day late paying off the full balance, then interest will be added to the amount from the day upon which they signed the credit agreement - and this can often be at quite a high rate too! I'll say it again: It's the consumer's responsibility to ensure that they are happy with the terms and conditions of the contract that they are agreeing to - and that's the written contract that has been carefully devised - notice how close devised is to devious! :lol: - by lawyers, etc... If you're not happy with the contract's terms and conditions, then you should not have agreed to them. Anyways, like I said at the start, no offence meant and I hope none has been taken. I do feel sorry for you for feeling you have been mislead, but on the other hand, I took the time to investigate this "too good to be true" offer that was being made (including checking the terms and conditions) and to ensure that I knew fully what happened at the end of the promo period and I believe that everyone should have done the same. As for checking the terms and conditions for every item that I buy off the high street, etc... I have no need to as I am not normally entering into a binding contract, other than to pay the money for the goods. In addition to this, there are laws put in place to cover consumers in the event of them buying faulty goods or goods which turn out to not be fit for the purpose that they were advertised for. For example, most goods have to (by law) come with a warranty to cover them against manufacturing defects occuring within the first twelve months after purchase. Goods such as food stuffs have to come with a best before date on them (and often messages regarding storage conditions), and if they go bad before that date and the storage conditions have been complied with, then the manufacturer will be bound to pay any (fair) compensation for problems (such as food poisoning) arising from their below standard products or to give a replacement or refund for the cost of the product (normally the shop gives this - I assume they claim it back from the manufacturer!). Anyway, enough of my waffling on :roll: Hax
Guest drblow Posted June 6, 2003 Report Posted June 6, 2003 Hax - Glad there is no offence being taken - I see this as a frank & open discussion from 2 very different view points! :wink: It seems we are at a stalemate - I can't convince you, & you can't convince me!! Again - I can't stress enough that my feelings are based on the fact that I was told several times that the new pricing would be better than it actually is ... and the fact that you still consider this to be somehow my own fault for not checking the small print is quite frankly beyond me at this stage. I mean, that's what I was doing when I phoned Orange CS (numerous times) to find out what was happening when the promo ended. I'm not getting your point at all with the thing about someone spilling coffe on themselves - I don't see how it could be relevant to our discussion (unless someone in McDonald's had told the customer that it was in fact a COLD drink & was perfectly safe to pour over themselves - in which case, do you think they should have read the small print on their receipt or something!!??!!)& the actions of Americans can hardly be a realistic watermark for the rest of us!! And no I don't expect supermarket promotions to match value after they are finished - but the staff in the supermarket don't tell you that it IS going to be replaced by a better value one - AND the supermarket doesn't expect you to sign a 12 month agreement to continue shopping there!
Guest Monolithix [MVP] Posted June 6, 2003 Report Posted June 6, 2003 Just to throw another point of view in, how do you think all the "normal" GPRS subscribers have felt over the past 8 months paying full price for their data, where we get it for an insanely cheap price?
Guest madu Posted June 6, 2003 Report Posted June 6, 2003 I am bored. My 6p: 1. Yes we were told so and so. It turned out to be not what we believed this is. Yes it is expensive. Yes I will stop using it. 2. Promotional in effect means better value. So what's the point of promotional if after that we get better better value? Should be called 'Rip-off' pack. Common sense would hint that promo means 'better' to trick you into getting used to a benefit.. Then pay more for it coz you are so used to that comfort factor. 3. NO, you should not expect salespeople to lie about prods/services, but... Isn't that what they usually do? Or at least trick you into believing one or another. 4. America? McDonalds? No FT, no comment :lol: 5. Common sense told us (me at least) that we were gonna be tricked or mislead by better/equal value crap. Living in denial, are we?! 6. We are all (most that were in time to sign up) still on Promo pack right? Guys (you know who), you are arguing 2 different things. And you both know what your core argument is, only you apply it to common topic - there we go! In fact, both of you are right on your core points. And one more thing - I can never trust sales people and CS stuff. I don't say _they_ lie or mislead, but each person has goals, we are in real world and must accept that. Person's manager has goals. Board of directors has goals. They must be reached. So a manager of the store that needs to sell extra 100 items of whatever they is selling - they'll push it, won't they?? In fact that is the whole essense of the salesforce - to push the sales figure by making ppl buy a product that they would otherwise not.. Real world. And whether we want to accept it or not it is fact.. But I would again like to emphasize that GPRS rates are indeed too high. Why not give .5MB/mnth free for ppl that use it for purposes of email/timetable kindathing creating customer goodwill/acceptace. If you do d/l files, then it is your problem and you will pay higher GPRS rates for the service or get lower priced bundle. The rest is a matter of greed management. Duh! I was gonna write 3 lines. But to be fair I do not care. I'll just say goodbye to GPRS when time comes. I have a PC for the purpose.
Guest Posted June 7, 2003 Report Posted June 7, 2003 Here, here and well said to all! Can we put this one to bed now? :wink:
Guest Monolithix [MVP] Posted June 8, 2003 Report Posted June 8, 2003 We could have, but i just got my June bill, and have been billed for the GPRS pack for another month (until Jul 7th)....
Guest Matt Kirby Posted June 8, 2003 Report Posted June 8, 2003 [AOL mode] Me too! [/AOL mode] I got my bill last week, and will have £6 GRPS until the end of June. And I still haven't recieved a letter warning me its going to end (not that I'm complaining! :lol:). Has anyone yet actually been moved off of the £6 GPRS deal yet? Or is it all still speculation?
Guest djthorp Posted June 9, 2003 Report Posted June 9, 2003 We could have, but i just got my June bill, and have been billed for the GPRS pack for another month (until Jul 7th).... Did you get the letter off orange saying you were gonna be moved?? My billing date is 12th, here's hoping!!
Guest Monolithix [MVP] Posted June 9, 2003 Report Posted June 9, 2003 djthorp: Yep, said i would be moved after my June bill, and i've been billed for free GPRS until my July bill.
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