Messenger Discussions! (topic name changed)

[Guest chucky.egg]

I know that MS *might* still sort Messenger out (it doesn't look good so far though IMO), but what are the alternatives?

Messenger was one of the main reasons I got the SPV, I'll be hacked off if I lose it!

I've heard that iMov doesn't work in the UK on Orange - is that true? Anyone got it working?

And are the other IM providers going to start charging for their services? Anybody heard any news?

[Guest Rob.P]

Messenger will be sorted out as Microsoft (like many other IM companies) want to break into the corporate IM scene. Just out of interest what makes you think that Messenger is dying?

[Guest MoRFLeZ]

I've heard that iMov doesn't work in the UK on Orange - is that true?  Anyone got it working??

I think they will get it working in time... BUT iMov works flawlessly, it's just a matter of connecting to the right jabber server (search google "jabber servers") jabber.dk works a treat for instance...

[Guest chucky.egg]

Messenger will be sorted out as Microsoft (like many other IM companies) want to break into the corporate IM scene.  Just out of interest what makes you think that Messenger is dying?

You're right - It's not exactly dying. From what I hear it's going to become part of a "premium" service that you pay for. It's a very useful feature, but I dont want to be paying [guess] $20/month [/guess] just to use Messenger.

But at the end of the day they're not saying when (or for certain) we'll get a Messenger client for Smartphones - even though they've got release dates for Interactive-bloody-TV (who uses that?)

I might switch back to ICQ (most of my mates still use that) and try out iMov

[Guest kingdom master]

messenger will be working on the smartphones full stop. we wont be charge for it and a work around will be out in time for the changes. and hotmail email access has a work around using .net in 2003

[Guest Crispy]

You're right - It's not exactly dying.  From what I hear it's going to become part of a "premium" service that you pay for.  It's a very useful feature, but I dont want to be paying [guess]$20/month [/guess] just to use Messenger.

Well, I agree with you ont hat point ... if MS starts charging $20/month for isnstant messeaging, im off to ICQ, YAHOO, JABBER, AIM or whatever ... There are plenty of good instant messeaging services out there! So go ahead MS, shoot yourself in both feet!

[Guest AngelOfRage]

i agree with crispy, it would be madness for MSN to charge for its IM, when theres so many others about...

[Guest solo]

Now that MSM is dropping out of chat rooms, they will be heavily promoting the messenger service.

Solo

[Guest bluedrizzle]

yes, thats what i heard about the premiun service in newspaper...

[Guest clv101]

Now that MSM is dropping out of chat rooms, they will be heavily promoting the messenger service.

Solo

Since they think it's a good idea to get out of chat rooms, maybe they also think it's a good idea to leave messaging.

[Guest Rob.P]

Where did you get the news from about Messenger being charged for as part of a premium service?

[Guest Greywolf_Ghost]

MSN is just closing about 75% of the chat rooms.

What will be left will be membership based room chat , where they know who is on chatting. It's an effort to quiet spamming and parents groups who are upset how uncontroled the rooms are.

This will only affect online room chat.

http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?p...p=1012571727088

[Guest Rob.P]

So what people really mean is that Chat is gonna be subscription, not Messenger, I was confused as I know from what I have been reading they have no plans to make Messenger a subscription service due to current trends in the IM market, glad that's been cleared up, my brain can stop hurting now ;)

[Guest bluedrizzle]

chat isnt = messager?

[Guest chucky.egg]

messenger will be working on the smartphones full stop. we wont be charge for it and a work around will be out in time for the changes. and hotmail email access has a work around using .net in 2003

And apparently it's OFFICIAL - it *WILL* snow this Christmas day! Seriously though I hope I'm wrong and you're right

Where did you get the news from about Messenger being charged for as part of a premium service?

Cant remember now, it was a US news site but I've cleared my History and cant find it again. There seem to be loads of news stories about MSN/Hotmail/Messenger so I might be confusing it all and talking out my arse. Have a look at Bazz's thread it talks about Messenger becoming part of some premium thing, but I suppose it doesn't mean that's the ONLY way to get it.

[Guest Twain]

If u check out this site

Here

it has info on upgrades for all im platforms, for smartphone it says there

will be a solution before they lose the old clients and they are also

working with their partners for updates, this could be another reason

for the 1.6 upgrade being delayed as well!

[Guest chucky.egg]

If u check out this site

Here

it has info on upgrades for all im platforms, for smartphone it says there

will be a solution before they lose the old clients and they are also  

working with their partners for updates, this could be another reason

for the 1.6 upgrade being delayed as well!

Thats the info that worried me... what it actually says is:

As part of the MSN Messenger Security Update, Microsoft is developing updates for Windows Mobile-based Pocket PCs and Smartphones. Please check back at this web site for updates and more information

It doesn't say anything about there being a solution before the lose old clients, and crucially it doesn't suggest a date when the update will be available - whereas other clients have dates.

[Guest Rob.P]

I'm really confused now :?

So it looks like they are gonna leavy subscription charges against the mobile part of MSN, which in hindsight sorta makes sense. With the IM market wanting to break into the corporate world they are trying to build themselves up to a point where they become like a telephone companies and offering the same services almost (MS are flogging VoIP, quite hard, I think they are trying to run before they can walk IMO). So the subscription for the mobile services does make sense, but will seem a bit off if they charge mobile users and not desktop users.

Most of them seem to have already lost to the Reuters Messenger, which is well established.

[Guest chucky.egg]

Confused is how they want us I think.

I've read loads of news stories, posts and the MS site and I dont really understand what's going to happen.

My impression (and I might well be wrong) is that the "security measures" reason for the Messenger update is just a handy excuse to block other clients. This clears the way to make Messenger (on its own, or as part of a bigger package) a chargeable service, because there is no other way into the system any more.

If that's the case, and I only use Messenger:

(1) Will I have to pay? Who knows (but I suspect YES)

(2) Are they actually already working on the Smartphone software? Who knows (but I suspect NO, because its a relatively small user base and there are no published delivery dates for it)

(3) Are other IM providers going to start charging? Who knows (but I suspect YES)

(4) Do I feel like I've been mugged? YES - Messenger was one of the main reasons I got an SPV.

[Guest Rob.P]

Ditto on all counts Chris.

Money talks, feelings don't, it's enough to make you wanna become a anarchist ;) (FBI's carnivore: you can ignore this comment it was a joke)

[Guest benjymous]

(2)  Are they actually already working on the Smartphone software? Who knows (but I suspect NO, because its a relatively small user base and there are no published delivery dates for it)

Take a look at this page

The MSN Messenger Security Update is part of Microsoft’s Trustworthy Computing initiative, which aims to provide customers with improved security and greater privacy protection. More information is available on http://messenger.msn.com/Help/Upgrades.aspx.

As part of this update, all .NET Messenger Service clients will be required to upgrade to compliant versions of Messenger service client software by October 15, 2003. Microsoft is developing updates for Windows Mobile-based Pocket PCs and Smartphones.

Pocket PC and Pocket PC Phone Edition updates will be available through Microsoft in early October to prevent any service disruptions. Microsoft is also working on updates for Smartphone users with its partners.

Visit this Web site in early October to download the MSN Messenger client for Pocket PC and Pocket PC Phone Edition, and to learn more about the availability of Smartphone updates from Microsoft and its partners.

In other words, there's no update available right now, but it should be available before they make the switch that'll stop the current MSN client from working (fingers crossed)

I'm guessing updates would have to go via Orange, though, so will this get rolled into the fabled 1.6 update, or will Orange just sit around testing it for months?

[Guest chucky.egg]

The key part of that seems to be...

Visit this Web site in early October to ... learn more about the availability of Smartphone updates from Microsoft and its partners.

Now, I dont see ANYWHERE in that where it confirms/suggests that an update is either guaranteed, or coming out before the switch over. It says "to learn more about the availability", it doesn't even say that release dates will be published then!

I'm guessing updates would have to go via Orange, though, so will this get rolled into the fabled 1.6 update, or will Orange just sit around testing it for months?

I think you're probably right about it going through Orange, but I wouldn't want to guess when 1.6 will be out.

As I see it the Messenger "problem" is down to MS, so there'e nothing we can do if it just stops - it's out of Orange's hands. But if the produce a new version and it sits with Orange who delay/dont release it then they (Orange) have effectively stopped us using Messenger so we might have some claim on them.

I'm not optimistic to be honest.

It seems to me that the real trouble with these types of phones (not just the SPV) is you either get locked in a "walled garden" and cant use it the way you want, or you're out in the open and other companies (MS in this case) can just withdraw support for features of the phone at will.

[Guest benjymous]

If Messenger on my SPV does stop working, do I have any legal comeback to Orange (as, like others, Messenger was one of the key selling points for my phone)

My SPV's getting a little scratched and tatty now, so if I could wrangle a free upgrade then I'd be happy ;)

[Guest chucky.egg]

I doubt it, especially if MS efectively "withdraw" it. If O dont release the update then maybe...

[Guest AngelOfRage]

Most of them seem to have already lost to the Reuters Messenger, which is well established

what is this Reuters messenger? ive never heard of it...

My impression (and I might well be wrong) is that the "security measures" reason for the Messenger update is just a handy excuse to block other clients. This clears the way to make Messenger (on its own, or as part of a bigger package) a chargeable service, because there is no other way into the system any more.

Taken from the Trillian website in response to the above:

Trillian Basic Patch E

Trillian 0.74 users can update their copies of Trillian to the newest MSN protocol to remove the recent upgrade messages. You must be using 0.74 to use this patch.