Guest Brody Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 How's this then, http://www.aqny59.dsl.pipex.com/ Before anyone asks, no i don't think it really exists yes I know it isn't an e200 sorry, can't remember where I found it :roll: Hmm, its a shame that they couldn't get the Orange logo the correct size in photoshop :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 rintys5 wrote: No one has actually said if they have a problem with the 8 way joystick. I'm always getting diagonal movement when I didn't intend it - scrolling round file manger type lists and most annoying for me, adjusting the volume in Pocket Music and accidently jumping track (I use my e100 in the car as a music player). I've got a question.....does your E100 have a joystick or a navi-pad? It was pointed out to me that only the navi-pads are 8+1, while the joysticks (found on the E100 and E200) are 4+1. Both the 2002 and 2003 OS can handle 8+1, as proven by the Dopod 515...a Canary with a navi-pad running 2003 OS. Looks like a hardware issue, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Myke Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 How's this then, http://www.aqny59.dsl.pipex.com/ Before anyone asks, no i don't think it really exists yes I know it isn't an e200 sorry, can't remember where I found it :roll: WHAT WAS THIS A LINK TO? its not workin now = ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest midnight Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 I've got a question.....does your E100 have a joystick or a navi-pad? It was pointed out to me that only the navi-pads are 8+1, while the joysticks (found on the E100 and E200) are 4+1. Both the 2002 and 2003 OS can handle 8+1, as proven by the Dopod 515...a Canary with a navi-pad running 2003 OS. Looks like a hardware issue, right? e100 is a joystick and its 8 way (as in 4 directions + diagonals) my guess is it is a hardware issue, not software, and looking at the technical specs a concious decision to make it 4 way aswell, so doesnt look good for any sort of fix for this, looks like we're stuck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 ok, thanks Midnight. I had a sneaking suspicion that might be the reply. :lol: Someone I know in the biz (who should know better) mentioned that the joystick for both E100 and E200 was only 4+1.......the plot thickens..... :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr Orange Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 e100 is a joystick and its 8 way (as in 4 directions + diagonals) my guess is it is a hardware issue, not software, and looking at the technical specs a concious decision to make it 4 way aswell, so doesnt look good for any sort of fix for this, looks like we're stuck with it. The change from an 8 way joypad to a 4 way joystick was a hardware decision taken by HTC. This was not a 'deliberate' decision taken to 'Scupper' gamers. Look out for more 'gamer' orientated devices in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul [MVP] Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 True, but it is a deliberated decision, and it does scupper gamers ;-) P Posted from my SmartPhone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dom Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 The change from an 8 way joypad to a 4 way joystick was a hardware decision taken by HTC. This was not a 'deliberate' decision taken to 'Scupper' gamers. Look out for more 'gamer' orientated devices in the future. Hi Mr O, To clarify, does that mean that the E200 cannot (and will not in the future) do 8-way nav? Wanted to know 'cos I suspect I will be buying a smartphone and I'd like the E200 but only if 8-way is going to be possible. If E100 is 4 way but 'does' 8-way, doesn't that mean that the E200 should be able to 'do' 8-way?). If E200 has no hope of doing 8-way then I guess its MPx200 time or wait for MPx220 when it comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rintys5 Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 The change from an 8 way joypad to a 4 way joystick was a hardware decision taken by HTC. This was not a 'deliberate' decision taken to 'Scupper' gamers. Look out for more 'gamer' orientated devices in the future. Can you divulge the thinking behind this decision by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest morpheus2702 Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 Look out for more 'gamer' orientated devices in the future. Well Midnight, I think that clears up any problems or frustrations you may have? :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadamehr Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 Well Midnight, I think that clears up any problems or frustrations you may have? :roll: Not necessarily... Mr O has given us insight into the rationale (bit of an oxymoron in this case if you ask me) behind the change to 4 way. But he has NOT (perhaps understandably for now) said anything about whether this can be circumvented or changed in the future. I think Paul's quote in response to the Orange spin is great but... 'This IS deliberate however, and DOES scupper gamers' Totally dispelling the Orange press release that I am sure Mr O is just having to repeat. And setting ANY other considerations aside Mr O/Guys... Er, how does one UPGRADE their phone to a DOWNGRADED device? Do you think Orange would waive the upgrade fee if we can show them how the E200 is in this respect a DOWNgrade. Well, at least I can't complain too much, as being my first device of the SPV ilk, this means I haven't DOWNGRADED unlike some of you silly souls :wink: (That's a big wink, in case the context was lost...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest morpheus2702 Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 Sorry, I should have implied a lot my irony in my last comment. Like a boatload full or irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Leo_dee Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 Look out for more 'gamer' orientated devices in the future. I had a sneaky suspicion that Orange would adopt an 'Its a business phone' stance to justify the screw up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest midnight Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 you see, now i'm in a dilemma, we 'could' make Kumite work with the E200, by using an alternative control method, but, why should we? E200 is a business phone, and i'm sure everyone who has bought one was aware iof this before they bought one, and i'm sure they are all aware that it has a 4way joystick when they purchased it aswell :lol: sorry Orange, i think you underestimate the importance of mobile gaming (recent reports show games are now downloaded more than ringtones and logos, and you know how important that is/was) I dont however solely blame Orange for this, it is, as Mr Orange says, a HTC design decision (even though Orange should have intervened and told HTC what is required, not the other way around). The main problem is, HTC isnt a european company, how do they know how important gaming is in this part of the world? Its a bit like when Microsoft underestimated the need for SMS (hence the lack of sms counter), simply because europeans text FAR more than americans do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest morpheus2702 Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 I dont however solely blame Orange for this, it is, as Mr Orange says, a HTC design decision (even though Orange should have intervened and told HTC what is required, not the other way around). I'm sorry Midnight, but when a company puts its brand on a product, it should carry out extensive product testing and certification to ensure it meets quality standards. Isn't that exactly what Orange boasts the Orange badge stands for on each an every one of it's handsets? And even more telling, this is an Orange Signature series phone - which if I remember correctly is customised so users can experience 'the full benefits of Orange's services'? Yes, anyone can say could have, should have etc. The question is - why didn't they?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest midnight Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 like i said, i dont 'solely' blame them (i'm definitely not defending Orange), its obviously a joint decision, originated by HTC, yes Orange should know better, i'm not denying that, but the original decision was made by HTC and it should have been up to Orange to correct them (but obviously they agreed), like i say, Orange have underestimated the importance of gaming. And developing a gaming device is no good either, does that mean the gaming device wont have the apps that the e200 has? I thought the point of MS Smartphone was to create a convergence device? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dom Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 like i said, i dont 'solely' blame them (i'm definitely not defending Orange), its obviously a joint decision, originated by HTC, yes Orange should know better, i'm not denying that, but the original decision was made by HTC and it should have been up to Orange to correct them (but obviously they agreed), like i say, Orange have underestimated the importance of gaming. And developing a gaming device is no good either, does that mean the gaming device wont have the apps that the e200 has? I thought the point of MS Smartphone was to create a convergence device? Think you hit the nail on the head there about a gaming device... I'm sure they do have their place, but if you look to the 'desktop' I think we'll find that convergence in many ways is why the PC has been such a success. Obviously not everyone uses every bit of functionality that their PC can offer, but a PC (not necessarily a Windows one) does allow you to do pretty much everything (games, info mgmt, personal organisation, work, development, art, web and everything else). I'd never buy a PC purely because it could play games (though it's a pretty good reason to buy one :lol:), but it is a factor when buying for personal use. Truth is that today, for the majority of things that we run on our PC's anything will do the job - the games are the hard part. Sorry off on a tangent a bit there. But one other point to note about PC's / computers that have human interfaces in general is that by and large they support the same conventions for user input - shouldn't this be so for phones too (particularly smartphones - that I would see as 'the next level'). Could you imagine someone buying a PC that could only accept mouse movement that was up, down, left, right? Prob not the best example, but I'm sure you get the point. In many ways I'm surprised MS aren't a bit upset by this (maybe they are), 'cos they have always had pretty good UI guidelines and I would have thought they'd require it in these early implementations of their new baby (we are still in the infancy of smartphones I think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Leo_dee Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 The question is - Where does the buck stop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest midnight Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 here ----> . :lol: of course, you could argue, if it truly is meant as a business phone then why bother with windows media player? and why include Rebound with the E200? (by the way, rebound needs diagonal movement to play correctly....ooops ;)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Leo_dee Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 The question is - Where does the buck stop? Someone should take responsibility for what has happened and do something about it. At the moment they are all pointing the finger at each other. I think Orange should take the initiative and apologise to its customers and decide what they are going to do about the issues. I personally don’t expect an immediate fix but their assurance that they are working on a solution, or will at least 'look after' us early adopters when a new handset became available would be nice. Simply acknowledging the problems would be a start! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dom Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 The question is - Where does the buck stop? Someone should take responsibility for what has happened and do something about it. At the moment they are all pointing the finger at each other. I think Orange should take the initiative and apologise to its customers and decide what they are going to do about the issues. I personally don’t expect an immediate fix but their assurance that they are working on a solution, or will at least 'look after' us early adopters when a new handset became available would be nice. Simply acknowledging the problems would be a start! I recon with the E200 the only thing you can do is either accept it as it is (weigh up whether the advantages outweigh the disadvantages - for your personal use) or take it back. Based on my limited experience with the original SPV (I ended up taking it back - 'cos it didn't fit the bill for me personally this time last year.... I liked it but there were too many bits that I wasn't so keen on), I don't think you can expect great leaps in any short timescale. Orange did provide one patch to fix some of the issues (think it took about 3 months), then people are still waiting for the next patch. I'm still considering the E200... but I will be considering it based on how it works now rather than how it may be in the future... We can't rely on Orange fixing the issues (based on past performance). It's not right, but I think its what everyone's got to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FrankyG Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 I'm still considering the E200... but I will be considering it based on how it works now rather than how it may be in the future... We can't rely on Orange fixing the issues (based on past performance). It's not right, but I think its what everyone's got to work with. :idea: Bingo. To do otherwise and you're inviting disappointment and frustration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Myke Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 Mr Orange said it doesnt have diagonal because its a business phone? 1 second. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Okay seriously. Thats the lamest lie Ive ever heard. They messed up big time. It will end up hurting them if they continue to run a sloppy business and release buggy phones. I think they got a little too use to having the only smartphone model out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roland Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 As midnight wrote, HTC is the manufacturer and designer of the physical device - not Orange, not Qtek, not i-Mate, not MS. Rather than continue a 15 page (and growing) gripe-fest, why not contact HTC to determine if the device is physically capable of blending the joystick signal to accomodate diagonal input? If so, then by all means march on Orange and demand a driver update. Also, FWIW MS provides the core OS pieces and the vendors do ALL the driver work, e.g. HTC for the physical, Orange for radio stack tuning, etc. When planning the use of ICBMs to achieve a goal, aim helps .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest midnight Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 in fact, with the MPX200, you have an even worse problem, that is supposed to do diagonals, and it does, so long as you dont press down-left, now that is a hardware fault and bug, not a decision to 'lets not make it go diagonal left because this is a business phone' decision. And this is Motorola we are talking about (well, Chi Mei to be honest), at least HTC had the balls to make a proper decision regarding the joystick regardless as to whether thats the correct decision or not (in our minds) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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