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how much video bitrate can handle????

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#1
luiscs17

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hi

i just trying to rip some movie to my omnia II and watch to my standard tv with the O2 video output with resolution 544x480 , but i need to know how much video bitrate can handle O2



dvd = 720x480
7500 video bitrate

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#2
filougk

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dvd = 720x480 
7500 video bitrate


samsung's stock player can play 720x480 H264 videos @ 7.5 Mbits. It can probably play videos with an higher bitrate but it's already a waste...

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#3
ray1234

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samsung's stock player can play 720x480 H264 videos @ 7.5 Mbits. It can probably play videos with an higher bitrate but it's already a waste...

Are you sure it can play at 7.5Mbits? I have encoded some H264 MP4 using TMPGenc's MP4 constant quantization, the average bitrate works out to be only about 1-2Mbits for some movies, but Touchplayer still cannot play smooth at certain scenes, I suspect there are problems whenever bitrate reach 3-4Mbits...

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#4
filougk

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Are you sure it can play at 7.5Mbits? I have encoded some H264 MP4 using TMPGenc's MP4 constant quantization, the average bitrate works out to be only about 1-2Mbits for some movies, but Touchplayer still cannot play smooth at certain scenes, I suspect there are problems whenever bitrate reach 3-4Mbits...

The average bitrate of my encoded video sample is 6.343 Mbits/s = ~106Mo for 2:19 minutes (23.976 fps). The original video sample is 720p with an average bit rate of 4.6Mbits. I tried 1 pass ABR and 2 pass asking for an average bit rate of 7.5MBits. Both play quite smooth, i notice some slowdowns always in the same scenes... 

I also tried encoding with a VBV buffer size and VBV maximum bit rate in auto mode (default mode), playback was a bit worse. I always use 10000 for both settings but they should be tuned i guess. Omnia II hardware decoder is supposed to decode up to 10Mbits/s according to is level profile.

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#5
iamspuzzum

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been playing around the last few days myself....... grrrrrrr :)

I like using freeware 'virtualdub', but can't get the same settings for h264 encodes that tmpgenc 4 has... ie: 'type=normal'. Keep getting 'can't play supported format' (or something along those lines). But... an xvid at 15000kbps (1.5mb's) looks and plays great... just doesn't look as good as h264 B)

But... if you have the h264 encoding part down, then if you want a smoother/smaller bitrate... resize to 480x320... it's the next size down from 720x480. Tmpgenc encodes at that size play fine. I'm just having issues with my tmpgenc's codecs... mp4's all blocky ;)



just my 2c's.......

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#6
iamspuzzum

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Here's a Samsung h264 encode setting for tmpgenc4x I found through my travels... sorry, can't remember where.

Something to remember though, is although the units are capable of recording full D1 mpegs, at full dvd aspect and bitrates, more than likely the video you're trying to watch isn't stored in the unit's own memory... it's stored on the mini-sd. Therefore, you're dependant on the sd's data rate, and the rate at which the unit itself can transfer that data. Imagine the 'bottleneck' that can happen in these things B)

That's why I suggested resing down to 480x320 first... it's 2/3's of 720x480. Before you cringe at the thought of shrinking your perfectly ripped 720x480, think of what you want to do with that video first: is it just for the phone?, or, is it also to be output to a tv? If just for the phone, then you don't need the extra data that a full 720x480 needs. Your screen is only 800x480 to begin with, and a 480x320 upsises back to 720x480 perfectly fine on it's own. Similar to how a tv handles the original 720x480... not all tv's are the same size, so they all need to resize accordingly :)

Something else that came to mind... looking at the settings in tmpgenc, there's a 'buffer rate' setting... look in the manual, in the 'help' tab... it'll explain it better than me, but what it seems to do, is set the player's (phone's) internal buffer for the video itself. It says to set at least the same amount as the bitrate being used. .. Guess it's similar to how a dvd player 'reads ahead', so there's no skipping/stuttering on dual layer breaks. Also how portable cd player's 'anti skip' works. .. Theory being, buffer the amount being used for the video, and there should never be a lack of memory.

That being said, remeber... these things are windows...

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Edited by iamspuzzum, 06 January 2010 - 03:22 AM.

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#7
iamspuzzum

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Woops... made a mistake about storing on the card. I've only had my Omnia 2 for 3 weeks, and have only just realized it's 16gig 'My Storage' is missing. My tech support is 'working on it'. I'm in Canada, and the phone is new to Bell. I've read the issues Verison users have already been through with this, so 'hopefully' Bell can fix the unmounted storage, so it can be formatted and used. Video would play smoother at a higher bitrate.

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#8
AndyCarroll

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I've found that smooth MP4 h264 playback depends of total pixels of video. If video is 720x480 (345,6kPix) then playback is jerky. Something less than 250kPix is much better. No matter if performance setting is "high" or "auto".
Tried different resolutions and finally encoded my videos 608x368 (nearly ideal aspect ratio for Omnia's screen) and 700kb/s AVC Baseline profile. Audio is AAC 192kb/s 48kHz 16bit stereo ( I like good sound :) ).
For DivX and XviD there's no such restrictions because h263-based codecs are piece of cake for 800 MHz processor to decode.
It seems that Xvid 1500kb/s gaves similar quality as h264 700kb/s.
Haven't tried video bitrates over 2000kb/s yet. Omnia's TV-out is good but not good enough for bitrates over 2000kb/s I think.

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#9
iamspuzzum

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Bell replaced the omnia yesterday... got my 16gb's back B)

Still as jerky in busy scenes though. Source is ntsc 23.976p, "Weeds", episode 1. Clip is actually telecined, so used virtualdub and it's internal IVTC (3:2 pulldown removal). Plays great on pc, but still jerky on omnia. Tried adobe's after effects, letting it decide the pulldown removal... tff, wwssw (5 frames= 2 progressive, followed by 2 interlaced, followed by 1 more progressive). Same thing... plays smooth on pc, jerky in busy scenes on omnia.

Tried the 'HTC Encoder'... same thing. Handbrake, set for iPhone... same thing.

Maybe that's my issue... trying to make so the vids can play on both my omnia, as well as my buddy's iPhone, and other buddy's iPod touch. They only play h264. If they played xvid, then the xvid's are fine... smooth at 1500kbps at 'unrestricted', 480x320.

AndyCarroll... you suggested 700kbps h264 in place of the 1500kbps xvid... trying right now, encoding as I type.

As for h263 though... it does have 'some' aspect limitations:

128x96
176x144
352x288
704x576
1408x1152


Although the pc will play h263 at non-native resolutions, the omnia will not. And if encoding with ffdshow's h263, it will warn you if you try a 480x320 h263 encode. Says to use h263+ instead. .. Just read there's even a h263++ as well :)



Side note... anybody else have issues posting a reply here, while surfing with the omnia? I tried posting this twice from the phone... came up blank(?). Using opera10.


cheers....

Edited by iamspuzzum, 13 January 2010 - 04:20 AM.

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#10
NewForce

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Bell replaced the omnia yesterday... got my 16gb's back B)
Still as jerky in busy scenes though. Source is ntsc 23.976p, "Weeds", episode 1. Clip is actually telecined, so used virtualdub and it's internal IVTC (3:2 pulldown removal). Plays great on pc, but still jerky on omnia. Tried adobe's after effects, letting it decide the pulldown removal... tff, wwssw (5 frames= 2 progressive, followed by 2 interlaced, followed by 1 more progressive). Same thing... plays smooth on pc, jerky in busy scenes on omnia.

As for h263 though... it does have 'some' aspect limitations:

Although the pc will play h263 at non-native resolutions, the omnia will not. And if encoding with ffdshow's h263, it will warn you if you try a 480x320 h263 encode. Says to use h263+ instead. .. Just read there's even a h263++ as well :)
Side note... anybody else have issues posting a reply here, while surfing with the omnia? I tried posting this twice from the phone... came up blank(?). Using opera10.
cheers....

Omnia2 come with MP4-AVC H.264 video hardware decoding.

It has Media Player can playback with upto 720x480 30fps H.264 MP4-AVC video smoothly, which outperformed CorePlayer, hand down.

Edited by NewForce, 13 January 2010 - 06:25 AM.

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sent from my Samsung Galaxy TAB

#11
iamspuzzum

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Progressing along... seems constant bitrate might be the culprit with my encodes. A single pass vbr of 1mbps, max of 1.2mbps, plays a lot smoother than a cbr of even 600kbps. Not sure why, but transitions from slow to busy scenes are definitely smoother. .. Now to play with 2 pass encodes :)

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#12
iamspuzzum

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Found some tips. It's not the bitrate, it's the level of compression. That's why smooth on 3ghz P4, but choppy on 800mhz Omnia. H.264 needs a lot of horsepower. Tips found along the way: baseline, disable all "high" and "main". no Adaptive 8x8 DCT transform. no 8x8 DCT Spatial Transform. no CABAC (CAVLC if possible). no B-Frames (set to zero). no Weighted P-Prediction. "Flat" quantization matrix. no interlaced (but why would you want to). play with VBV Buffer. This gives larger file, but play with 2-pass, with a higher target rate. cheers....

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#13
iamspuzzum

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Found some tips. It's not the bitrate, it's the level of compression. That's why smooth on 3ghz P4, but choppy on 800mhz Omnia. H.264 needs a lot of horsepower. Tips found along the way: baseline, disable all "high" and "main". no Adaptive 8x8 DCT transform. no 8x8 DCT Spatial Transform. no CABAC (CAVLC if possible). no B-Frames (set to zero). no Weighted P-Prediction. "Flat" quantization matrix. no interlaced (but why would you want to). play with VBV Buffer. This gives larger file, but play with 2-pass, with a higher target rate. cheers....

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#14
AndyCarroll

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iamspuzzum, for h264 encoding try XviDPSP: http://www.freewaref...gram_22212.html
For Omnia2 choose Format: MP4 iPhone or Touch. Then on toolbar click Video/ Resolution-Aspect.. and put 720x480 or less.
Now in Video Encoding make sure that AVC Profile is still Baseline (sometimes it jumps to Main Profile and file doesn't play fot that) and bitrate is 700...1000kb/s. As you see, in this setting there are disabled CABAC, B-frames etc.
You can play with different Audio settings and use 2-pass/3-pass encoding...but I've found that only without AAC audio video will be smooth. Maybe you have better luck :-) Here we use PAL and 25fps so I'm not sure how behaves 30fps video.

XviD (and this is h263 in theory) I've encoded so far only in VirtualDub and found that every possible setting plays smooth until video bitrate ~5000kb/s. Used audio as Lame MP3, 48kHz, 16bit, 192kb/s, stereo. File sizes, of course, are bigger than h264.

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#15
iamspuzzum

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AndyCarrol... you're right about the aac, and actually beat me to the post :). I'd fought with it all night, from nero aac encode, to faac in 'belight', even dropping down to 32000/128kbps. Readme for ipod even suggested 160kbps or less, and a thread for android said same thing. .. I even tried different muxers, from cli's mencode and ffmpeg.. same thing. .. Found 2 freewares: "winff" and "mpeg streamclip"/"yamb". Both have presets for various handhelds, and both still jumpy on omnia. .. It's the damn driver/codec in these things. I'm up north, and we started at wm6.5. My understanding, is verison's had few updates already. Even read 1 update caused video/audio issues that last version didn't have.. typical windows :). .. We also have a "quick media player" from bell, opens automatically when selecting mp4 from 'my storage' folder itself. Plays a bit smoother, but not much. .. By the way.. h264 with cabac, plays completely smooth.. without the aac :).

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#16
iamspuzzum

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Well... looks more like a 'human interface' type error :) .. Just realized 'audio effects/srs' was enabled in touch player... woops :) The jerkyness has reduced to a flutter. Playing around with the settings in after effects, set the composition to 'sdtv ntsc' colour space, figuring that would help with the omnia's decryption/play. Dropped the audio to 128kbps, with frequency having precedence over bitrate. Doesn't sound as tinny as I thought it would, but definitely not as full as the original 48000/192 ac3.

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#17
iamspuzzum

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Success :). .. Adobe was spitting out 23.976 as 'mixed framerate', which might have been the issue. Commandline encoding, using x264.exe, and besweet/neroaacenc.exe, then muxed with mp4box.. smoother, but still flutters here and there.. never in same place twice. Must be buffer settings. .. Came across 'xmedia recode'. Edited 'Samsung i8910 HD' to allow 480x320, even though it 'says' it defaults as that - it actually defaults to 640x480. Used 1000kbps, and aac at 44100, 160kbps. .. Best encodes so far B)

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#18
ray1234

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Personally, I'll only be using H264 AVC, as this is the best codec so far in terms of quality against bitrate. Yes, XVID may produce the same quality at double the bitrate, but why waste space?

After trying a couple of encoding methods, I settled down for using TMPGenc 4. I choose the MP4 AVC output and use the constant quantization encoding. My output is set at 720x480 if possible (and lower if crop from DVD), and fps follows the original film. This method usually ends up with file about 3MB/s for 720x480 resolution, and TouchPlayer plays the file very smoothly.

The best part of using TMPGenc's constant quantization is it is blazing fast! There is no need for 2 pass and the result encoding speed is even faster than Nero 2-pass! Nero was already the fastest 2 pass encoder I can find.

One side issue, I noted that AVC output from Nero doesn't play on Omnia 2 Touchplayer at all, don't know why.... anyone else notice that?

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#19
babyjosef17

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I posted before on the "Graphics so slow" topic that I cannot get the AVC from format factory to work. Well it still does not work on my home PC but managed to make it work on my work pc instead. at home I used Super Converter

I will read this topic more to find the best options to convert my video. So far I get good quality but still abit jumpy and must set omnia to high speed.

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#20
iamspuzzum

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Well.. no matter what I tried, jerkiness always came back. Think I found the issue.. not bitrate, not the aac audio, and not the upsizing as a 720x480 clip had same results... it was the format of the storage, ie: fat16 (fat) vs fat32. Fat32 and video's choppy, and always at different frames. Fat16 and everything's smooth as silk. Guess the winmo os prefers 16 bit data flow..


cheers

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