Guest Sonicr360 Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 Yes PC's are made quicker and faster, but the point being made is that at least you could probably upgrade the software on the actual Hardware! With the Smartphone, I do not believe this is possible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taoski Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 If the phone is a lower hardware spec - ie cheaper aimed at the mass market - then i am all for it. I won't be upgrading (downgrading?) to it but if it means that there are more members of the Smartphone community - then great! More sales = more users = more development Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest midnight Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 this phone seems to me to be aimed more at the youth market, NOT the professional busniessman, hence the FM radio, and lets face it, how many youths use bluetooth (except for trying to wind people up by sending silly messages), that means at least they are trying to tap into new markets, good on 'em i say, its about time the ms smartphone was more mass market. so, before dismissing this phone think about the market they are targetting, what features THAT market needs (i'd even argue the youth market dont use cameras to be honest), and then think that they need to hit a certain price bracket to make it affordable for that market, it all makes perfect sense to me :) oh, another thing, if it doesnt suit your needs, dont buy it, no-ones forcing you to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Disco Stu Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 Perhaps we'll get the business models without the radio but featuring Word & Excel etc :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kyrkesmith Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 this phone seems to me to be aimed more at the youth market, hence the FM radio, and lets face it, how many youths use bluetooth?I agree with the FM radio, but I disagree with your bluetooth assertion. Many of my mates use bluetooth as a free way of transferring photos between phones. Admittedly, IrDA could be used, but if bluetooth is more commonly used, it should be included. i'd even argue the youth market dont use cameras to be honest I disagree. In my opinion, we're the most likely of anyone to use camera phones. The most popular phone amongst my mates is the T610, which features bluetooth, and a camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spark-x Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 any news on the camera? personally i'd value a *good camera* (lol) over bluetuuuth -- maybe.. hmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadamehr Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 this phone seems to me to be aimed more at the youth market, NOT the professional busniessman, hence the FM radio, and lets face it, how many youths use bluetooth (except for trying to wind people up by sending silly messages), that means at least they are trying to tap into new markets, good on 'em i say, its about time the ms smartphone was more mass market. so, before dismissing this phone think about the market they are targetting, what features THAT market needs (i'd even argue the youth market dont use cameras to be honest), and then think that they need to hit a certain price bracket to make it affordable for that market, it all makes perfect sense to me :) oh, another thing, if it doesnt suit your needs, dont buy it, no-ones forcing you to Midnight... Two things I feel I simply MUST correct you over.... EVERY single 'youth' I know/talk to, sees Bluetooth as a MUST HAVE feature - sadly, only so they can send tones and images to one another, but face it, more youths are using BT therefore, than us REAL people, and those that do, MORE OFTEN too. Just for sad reasons if you ask me. As for the next bit, sorry mate, but not a single youth worth his or her street cred salt will touch a phone without a camera these days. I know, I've tried selling two nokia n-gages recently, and a 5100, as well as a 7210. No one wanted any of these (no one being family memebrs and relatives under the age of 18 ), at almost any silly low price, when I was asked if they had a camera, and had to say "no". But as soon as i went to sell my now 'old' 7250, with a QCIF camera, it went no problem. Kids, youths, I'm afraid Midnight, INSIST on a camera these days. Do a straw poll test and see mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadamehr Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 Oops... Just seen kyrkesmith's post later on. Seems that I was spot on about Bluetooth and Camera - the young of today INSIST on these mate - quite the opposite to your feelings on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Simon Desser Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 I agree, Bluetooth and Cameras on phones are VERY important to the youth market :) I would even say that, even if these features aren't used as much as they could or should be, they are important to the kids, if only to be able to say that their phone has got them :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zeta101 Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 all that said, it still doesnt mean HTC isnt targeting this phone towards younger people, they might have got the wrong idea too hehe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SystemicAnomaly Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 Design is pretty important too methinx! The youth of today will not buy a brick of a smartphone unless it's feature-packed (and possibly pre-installed with SmartStripPoker! 8) ) And the C500 is pretty ugly. I suppose the small keys are aimed at 8 yr olds! the mpx100 and mpx220 are great looking phones with the features to back them up Maybe this will go straight to PAYG for £99 (unlikely!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ferret Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 how many youths use bluetooth (except for trying to wind people up by sending silly messages) Me? With my reputation? Hee hee hee! (Sorry, I'm drunk :roll: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 Folks, a SmartPHONE should be - as the name says - a PHONE which is "smart" because it offers amazingly more (maybe also unexpected) features than a "normal" phone. However a SmartPHONE should not primarily be a Mini/Micro-PC, but - again - a PHONE ! Otherwise the name would be wrong (ok, no one would really mind about that ;-) but - to be more serious - the marketing should be completely different then, which is important to meet the expectations of the focus group(s). Contrary I bought my iPAQs expecting them to act as Micro-Computers. If any of them (I never had one with a GSM function) were brilliant phones but poor Mini-PCs I'd be very frustrated. The "market" after all has to fulfill needs (sometimes created as well by the marketing, but anyway these are needs). So how would you (presently) describe the so-called Smartphones out there ? I'm not quite sure myself. Having worked in the cellco business for many years I know quite a lot of phones, market strategies, developments and (product) roll-outs. In the case of the E's (E100, E200) they seemed to have been "ordered developments" by Orange and produced by HTC while Microsoft played a key role, because they wanted a lever for entering the phone market in which they (still) have too little experience. OK, Orange surely launched quite some starting success and attention when they first introduced Smartphones. But in order to assure your (mid-term) revenues, customer confidence and (long-term) reputation you should never feel inferior to a business partner however big or almighty it might be like Microsoft. Orange could have used their deal and offer MS an entry into the market provided they deliver either reliable OS or (as the time to marketing is pressing) at least a series of reliable upgrades. None of that happened. I can only assume that was really bad Project Management by Orange at such a poor level which I have never seen in our business before. Note: There are a lot of operators where these Smartphones failed to pass almost every acceptance test category and thus received no approval. I'm asking myself: How come that Orange approved them ??? Smartphones were (are ?) not just new products but could be seen as a new product generation, maybe even a new "philosophy" like in 1999 was WAP (which also failed because of severe marketing mistakes by all major opco's). I know that the hardware of these phones is quite powerful. Even the tiny camera seems to be not too bad for a phone (pardon, SMARTphone). Seems to me that the images lose much of their quality in the JPG compression. Maybe Windows Mobile OS isn't so bad (I'm no expert to judge on that). Anyway it seems to need a general bugfixing and careful adjustment depending on which model it is applied. The firmware of the E200 is next to inacceptable: BT dialup functuionality now fixed just for the iPAQ. Still doesn't work with notebooks (just tried it out with an ther notebook: Acer Travelmate 8000 LMi with super BT builtin. Nokia 6310: installed in seconds and works. E200: tried everything for hours; connection isn't successfully set up). E200 crashes often when lying on metal surfaces and almost always when lying on metal surfaces and the radio part is on (e.g. receiving a call or SMS). This wasn't so in the previous firmware release. Camera now produces crappy videos with noisy sound (was working in original firmware, now unusable). Sound quality when a call comes in is lower than poor. The first GSM handset on the market was HiFi compared to the E200 *after* the upgrade (before quality and sound level were ok). WAP cannot be invoked by http:// but wsp:// is mandatory (practicably unusable when WAP pages contain further http:// links). "+" sign only created upon pressing "0" longer when entering a number in UI mode but e.g. not when entering a new contact. (Hey MS and HTC: You made a phone ! And this is an essential feature of a phone !) Keylock no longer working when a call comes in: Then - if you have the phone in the holster - a touching of any key (inevitable when trying to take it out) receives the call. However I was never able to hear the A party then but nothing at all and the call was gone. (Remember HTC & Orange: This should be a phone !) Battery standby time: poor, poor, poor ! Accessories: are but very hard to obtain. No Phone Suite software available (except for the Jeyo Mobile Companion, which I purchased. I love it. Shame on Microsoft and Orange for not bundling any kind of such software or having it designed by MS or HTC.) *** Despite I'm still using my Qtek 8080 and hoping that - finally - another upgrade will turn it into a full-fledged phone. Knowing the market and its mechanism, however, I rather doubt. Regards G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drblow Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 :shock: Wow! Couldn't have said it better myself! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sonicr360 Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 landauf Agree with your statements and as I have said, the entire Orange Smartphone range has been dogged by poorly designed programming, lack of decent accessories, bloody decent Bluetooth (using their own probably because no other phone supplier wants MS in the Phone Industry) and lack of build quality and the ability to upgrade. If this new phone (C500) does not come with Bluetooth, how do you expect youth to buy it? I know many, many people who use Nokia phone with Bluetooth and use it for fun / information. Would I persuade them to get one of these phone? No way! There has to be much, much better quality of phones on the market to make me ever get a smartphone again. Your right no one, is forcing me to get one, but after living with one for the past 11 months, I have been extremely disappointed by the whole feel of the product. Maybe MS should not be in the phone Industry?? I am pretty sure there are other phone providers that dont want them here! On a smaller point, Do you also realise MS are trying to take over your TV/DVD/Video/Entertainment System? Windows Media Edition.... what the hell is that about!!!!!!! GO AWAY MICROSOFT !! Why would I want to watch TV only to have XP Media Edition do a BSOD!!! Whats next? A Microwave? Car? An AirPlane controlled by Windows! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest midnight Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 Oops... Just seen kyrkesmith's post later on. Seems that I was spot on about Bluetooth and Camera - the young of today INSIST on these mate - quite the opposite to your feelings on it. i aint a youth no more hehe, just saying what i see, i see loads of kids phoning and texting their mates, using as mp3 players, playing games, but havent seen one using a camera or bluetooth, of course, that doesnt mean it isnt happening, just saying i havent seen anyone using it for that. Indeed, i could be wrong about their target audience aswell, i'm just trying to make sense of the phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vector Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 I use Bluetooth and camera :) But i don't think any of my mates even know what bluetooth is hehe...but they do know what a camera is and use them :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spark-x Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 Sonicr360 - yes, microwave and car not unrealistic... they want windows everywhere... sorry, slightly off topic. s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jakob Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 Actually, Microsoft is allready working on car software - or is ct called Operating System? Posted from my SmartPhone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jakob Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 According to last weeks spec. of the phone, it has got camera. Dunno about the resolution and about BT. According to the source, it will be the best SPV yet to be released. /Jakob Posted from my SmartPhone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kyrkesmith Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 I don't think any of my mates even know what bluetooth is Nor do some of mine......but they still want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest midnight Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 its a good point, just because so far we havent heard that its got BT or camera doesnt mean we should assume it hasnt got them :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taoski Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 If this phone is to be aimed at the "yoof" market then Bluetooth and a cam is a must. Yesterday when i was crawling back to my car after getting stuck on yet another non-aircondition new Virgin Pendolino train on the way back from work - i saw a schoolgirl sitting reading (!) with an MPx200 sitting by her side. It made me think - with all the issues and bugs i/we have with our current smartphones/software - how would the average young person cope with doing things like having to hack the registry to get better performance from the phone - or doing a hard reset and ROM upgrades and all the other weird and wonderful things we get involved in. Unless there is a good set of software and tools to go with the phone - they have no hope in getting people to buy stuff like this. I may be talking down the intelligence and capabilities of todays youth - so i appologise in advance - but i cannot see it appealing to a mass market like Nokia does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kyrkesmith Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 I'd agree with your comment about schoolgirls and Smartphones if you said it was an SPV. However, it's my experience that anyone can use an MPx200 to some extent, even if it's not too its full capability. It's far less buggy than HTC's efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadamehr Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 According to last weeks spec. of the phone, it has got camera. Dunno about the resolution and about BT. According to the source, it will be the best SPV yet to be released. /Jakob Posted from my SmartPhone! The lack of BT makes that statement quite impossible, by very nature of definition. Best = the most desired or useful features available at that time. Take one or more of these out, and I'm sorry, but you can NEVER offer its the best. You could invent an new XDA3 Pocket PC, and give it wi/fi, gprs, sdio, compact flash etc etc etc. But if you take away bluetooth from it, that many people rely on to use a headset with, becuase of its obvious large size, then it isn't best anything. Indeed, it would likely as not, sell very poorly. So let's clarify one thing straight away... This new handset might or might not have lots going for it.... But it WILL NEVER be the 'best of breed' spv, even at that point in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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