Orange have NOT dumped the MPx220...

[Guest mcwarre]

I'm actually quite worried abou the world ending tomorrow now just in case you all blame me.

If it does all end tomorrow we are rounding up a possie and heading your way :) :P

[Guest midnight]

I don't understand why Orange cannot or do not like to talk about future products. If Orange WERE to announce that they would be carrying the MPx220 I'd probably not be looking at any of the other retailers. It would secure my custom come upgrade time and probably others.

I think it's more a case of they just dont know yet, from what i've heard, MPx220 had quite a few bugs at the moment (bad battery life especially with BT turned on, camera quality is proor despite being 1.2mp, and a few other bugs), so I think O are just waiting to see if/when the phone comes up to scratch first before committing. Which is completely understandable.

[Guest martin]

If Jacek is so quick to get the latest news then why doesn't he have a headline that says 'msmobiles lies, Orange are not dumping the MPX220' :evil:

[Guest snowgoon]

Firstly I'm surprised ANYONE goes by msmobiles anymore. I agree you COULD interpret the information that way but the poiint isn't the interpretation it's the way the information is portrayed.

Secondly, poor Orange. If they refuse to comment on a handset we give them pelters for not telling us about when it's due, or if it's coming at all (and someone people leap all the way to DUMPED!!), but if they DO tell us and it's late, we give them pelters and ask why they can't get their dates correct, and why do we have to wait and why why why...

Product development isn't an exact science, and whilst I agree that Orange could do a better job of hiding development progress, they are NEVER gonna comment on upcoming models.

They can't win either way, so they'll always take the line of least resistance. Believe it or not, they don't want the hassle either.

[Guest B@man]

Ok, 1st. My opinins are my own. Even if there are some who may have, my opinion came from the transcript not from MSMobiles.

2nd. I'm not a gamer nor do i really care, i've yet to reach level 10 of Boxy Pocket :shock:

3rd. Yes others may take the MPx range even if O' don't. Nor is it "science", "the public get what the public want" (credit: P Weller). From the Forum as a whole, the majority are O' customers. O' listen to our opinon. We have the voice, even if not often heard.

If the product is not up to scratch then we should trust them. Sod the deveolpers need to play. But I'm sceptical about O' and their need to attract new custom rather than service the old.

4th. Nobody sent me a meeting request about The End Of The World. Can we re-shcedule for next week or the week after? Let me know. :wink:

[Guest McHale]

All this is irrelevant, i'd say i'm almost positive O will carry the MPx220, and in my opinion, if they dont, thats the end of Moto's run with the MS Smartphone i'd say.

what are you smoking? Orange is like a 3rd world country compared to the GSM providers in the US as far as number of subscribers is concerned(Cingular, T-Mobile, AT&T). After Cingular aquired AT&T, they are basically the largest carrier in the world. Since they carry a LOT of Motorola phones, I'm pretty sure if Orange doesn't carry the MPx220, they'll do OK.

-Mc

[Guest B@man]

what are you smoking?  Orange is like a 3rd world country compared to the GSM providers in the US 

-Mc

:) :P :D

The original ref is to the UK market.

[Guest beersoft]

mchale, we might be a 3rd world country, but at least we get good phones before there out of date and the magic of 3G :)

and if your blowing the "USA MOBILE NETWORKS ROCKS" trumpet, can we point and laugh at the "ohh dear, i've moved more than 3 feet from my house and im roaming" or the equaly fun "Call me on my landline as it uses up my free minuites".

and when/if ATT release the MPx220 there sure to break a major feature somewhere.

later

Owen

"not getting started on how rubbish the wired phonesystem is in the states - ISDN30 anyone?"

[Guest midnight]

what are you smoking? Orange is like a 3rd world country compared to the GSM providers in the US as far as number of subscribers is concerned(Cingular, T-Mobile, AT&T). After Cingular aquired AT&T, they are basically the largest carrier in the world. Since they carry a LOT of Motorola phones, I'm pretty sure if Orange doesn't carry the MPx220, they'll do OK.

-Mc

You are joking arent you????? China mobile is the biggest, followed by Vodaphone and the T-Mobile, but the fact is Orange sell WAY more MS Smartphones than any other Carrier, if Orange dont take it on thats a huge loss for Motorola. Like I said though, I think Orange WILL carry the MPx220 once the major bugs have been ironed out.

[Guest B@man]

Well, Yankee arrogance shows from the post. I wouldn't antagonise him to much as AT&T may might invade Orange citing " it's a wicked dictatorship, forcing users to buy only HTC mobey's. :wink:

[Guest jcjdoss]

what are you smoking? Orange is like a 3rd world country compared to the GSM providers in the US as far as number of subscribers is concerned(Cingular, T-Mobile, AT&T). After Cingular aquired AT&T, they are basically the largest carrier in the world. Since they carry a LOT of Motorola phones, I'm pretty sure if Orange doesn't carry the MPx220, they'll do OK.

-Mc

what are you smoking?

Probably the smoke from what your smoking, T-mo has coverage in both US and in Europe, Cingular only America. I am from america and obviously use Cingular. They have alot of Potential but by no means rule the cell market. I have to agree with beersoft, I have to cry because as of now our phone selection is slim to none. Yea, I'm using a smartphone..that I had to get from a different carrier...

As far a third world country compared to Cingular. At best Cingular will be above Orange by only a small margin. Maybe a million, depending on how many people stay after the merger. But Orange at the moment seems to carry a better selection of phones and have better plans. Try using your Cingular GPRS.....uh talk about third world. Anyhow better stick to rustling cow.

But guys don't be do hard on him he's a country boy from america, he is still impressed with his new fangled inside bathroom.

No offense man, but you made yourself and us look pretty dumb...

Sorry to be so harsh guys, But nothing bugs me more than misinformed arrogance, expecially from my own. It is like listening to my teenage daughter tell me how hard her life is.

[Guest martin]

For anyone who's actually curious on the actual subscriber numbers.

Click HERE for who's who in the heavy weight division :)

[Guest B@man]

McHale, comments, in light of the above?

[Guest McHale]

comments... easy. Re-read my initial post and you'll see I was correct.

I believe I stated that T-Mobile and Cingular beat the crap out of Orange (who according to Midnight is what Motorola's success in the smartphone market is based on) in terms of number of subscribers.

Since Cingular purchased AT&T and will take complete control of the wireless company in a couple months, lets do the math:

Orange (worldwide): 40 million

Cingular+AT&T (US): 46.9 million

T-Mobile (US Only): 14.3 million

Total in US: 61.2 million

As stated, the US companies (GSM only) are far larger than Orange, (which is all I stated). When I stated "largest company in the world" I meant single in one country. 47 million subscribers will be the number for Cingular here in a couple months. There are a couple humungous companies that have large numbers due to them having holdings in other countries (e.g. T-Mobile has 26 million in Germany plus 14 million in the US which each one individually is much smaller than Cingular's 47 million).

Either way, Motorola isn't going to close up shop because one vendor out of many, many vendors and millions and millions of potential purchasers decides to not carry their phones. Motorola only lost top dog spot in wireless phone sales because of Nokia's ability to market crap like faceplates. It had nothing to do with innovation or technology advancements. Check out the Nokia forums. You'll see what I mean.

Wanna talk wireless in general?

Who invented wireless phones? Who had the first wireless network? Who currently has the fastest? Where is Motorola?

It's all in the US kids.

GSM is 2G and is a minor advancement to the US's TDMA (1G). Theoretically, GSM should have been 1.5G but I'm not complaining. What has the world outside of the US done with it since then? Not much, they have GPRS and EDGE. Just minor advancements to old technology. What has the US done since 2G? Plenty - it's called 1xRTT.

GSM in all forms is a dead technology anyway. It's alive but soon to be abandoned technology speaking. The only path to 3G is CDMA (either in CDMA2000 or CDMA 1xRTT). When I was an engineer for Lucent, I met with TIM, Orange, O2, Vodaphone, China Unicom, Verizon, and many many more. Anyone want to hedge a bet what phone everyone's using in the world of tomorrow? I'll save you a trip to Disney World...

CDMA

Have a nice night kids.

And for the tard in the US who "admits" they use Cingular. You're using crap I helped design. I had the first article published in 2600 magazine for hacking cell phones so I'm willing to bet I'm a little more advanced than "indoor toilets."

-Mc

p.s. I'm still a little upset. They just got rid of the French club at my kid's school. Turns out they didn't do anything except surrender to the German club every once in a while...

[Guest McHale]

oh yah, don't forget to add on the additional 85 million or so subscribers who have already made the jump to 3G (Verizon, Sprint, Alltell, US Cellular, and the rest of the smaller providers).

So before you bash the US about how crappy our service is, GSM is what, 12 years old now? Most of the US is in some advanced stage of CDMA (cdma2000, 1xRTT, or in the process of upgrades) which GSM has to be abandoned to upgrade to.

When Europe and everyone else finally makes the jump to 3G, all of the GSM handsets out there today will be useless if you want 3G. 85 million people in the US right now can continue to use their existing handsets and upgrade at their leisure as new features are desired.

USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

-Mc

[Guest jcjdoss]

comments... easy.  Re-read my initial post and you'll see I was correct.

I believe I stated that T-Mobile and Cingular beat the crap out of Orange (who according to Midnight is what Motorola's success in the smartphone market is based on) in terms of number of subscribers.

Since Cingular purchased AT&T and will take complete control of the wireless company in a couple months, lets do the math:

Orange (worldwide): 40 million

Cingular+AT&T (US): 46.9 million

T-Mobile (US Only): 14.3 million

Total in US: 61.2 million  

As stated, the US companies (GSM only) are far larger than Orange, (which is all I stated).  When I stated "largest company in the world" I meant single in one country.  47 million subscribers will be the number for Cingular here in a couple months.  There are a couple humungous companies that have large numbers due to them having holdings in other countries (e.g. T-Mobile has 26 million in Germany plus 14 million in the US which each one individually is much smaller than Cingular's 47 million).

Either way, Motorola isn't going to close up shop because one vendor out of many, many vendors and millions and millions of potential purchasers decides to not carry their phones.  Motorola only lost top dog spot in wireless phone sales because of Nokia's ability to market crap like faceplates.  It had nothing to do with innovation or technology advancements.  Check out the Nokia forums.  You'll see what I mean.  

Wanna talk wireless in general?

Who invented wireless phones? Who had the first wireless network? Who currently has the fastest?  Where is Motorola?

It's all in the US kids.  

GSM is 2G and is a minor advancement to the US's TDMA (1G).  Theoretically, GSM should have been 1.5G but I'm not complaining.  What has the world outside of the US done with it since then?  Not much, they have GPRS and EDGE.  Just minor advancements to old technology.  What has the US done since 2G?  Plenty - it's called 1xRTT.

GSM in all forms is a dead technology anyway.  It's alive but soon to be abandoned technology speaking.  The only path to 3G is CDMA (either in CDMA2000 or CDMA 1xRTT).  When I was an engineer for Lucent, I met with TIM, Orange, O2, Vodaphone, China Unicom, Verizon, and many many more.  Anyone want to hedge a bet what phone everyone's using in the world of tomorrow?  I'll save you a trip to Disney World...

CDMA

Have a nice night kids.  

And for the tard in the US who "admits" they use Cingular.  You're using crap I helped design.  I had the first article published in 2600 magazine for hacking cell phones so I'm willing to bet I'm a little more advanced than "indoor toilets."  

-Mc

p.s.  I'm still a little upset.  They just got rid of the French club at my kid's school.  Turns out they didn't do anything except surrender to the German club every once in a while...

As much of a back country hick as I think Mc is I have to admit that his figures are right. Cingular will be the largest Cell phone company in a the world ...or single country I get the two confused. Well they would be if it weren't for that darn china mobile. At over 137 million and even with you padding cingulars & At&t's numbers they still might come in second in one single country.

Just because Cingular had the foresight to buy At&t it does not put it lightyears ahead of Orange. Europe is much farther ahead with cell phone technologies and numbers. You really need to take europe as a whole and compare to the US for numbers to be counted accurately. Europe would kill the US in numbers. So there goes second place.

To be honest, you could be the head of China Mobile, and I could care less. IN the forum you are just another post until you prove yourself. According to your first post in this thread you are a back country hick.

And I asked my mama, she agreed that I am a tard. So I can't argue with you there

Lighten up, it's just a forum... :)

USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!...Something we agree on

[Guest McHale]

Europe is much farther ahead with cell phone technologies

um? care to enlighten us how this is possible? GSM isn't really any better than TDMA and might I add, about 12 years old. Verizon's CDMA 1xRTT network is like less than a year old and can reach data rates faster than DSL or a cable modem.

Here's some things to consider for all of you who don't do this crap for a living (excuse me if my numbers are slightly off, I'm doing this from the top of my head but pretty sure I'm correct):

GSM - 9.6k typical data rates

GPRS - 28.8k typical speed to 128k peak (but not probable)

EDGE - 64k typical to about 384k peak (highly unlikely)

CDMA2000 - 56k typical to about 384k peak

CDMA 1xRTT - 400k typical to 2M peak

CDMA2000 1xEV-DO - 400k typical to 2M peak

Now, to be considered 3G technology, the standard states that the minimum requirement for data rate is 146k average rate.

Can you hedge a bet who the only country is with several operators (or any for that matter) that is actually doing that?

USA! USA! USA!

Now, you state that Europe is farther ahead in cell phone technologies. How the hell did you arrive at that conclusion? After all, we invented it... like 60 years ago, *GAVE* Europe GSM 12 years ago (which they are still using), and we have already successfully implemented 3G networks coast to coast (as well as have UMTS trials running for Cingular in Atlanta), my money is on the US for being light years ahead.

OK, now consider that the average country in Europe is about the size of Idaho so getting 80% population coverage takes like 6 towers vs. the amount of towers it takes to get 80% of the US, there's no comparison.

-Mc

p.s. if you like your cell phone, thank Motorola. Without them and a republican in the white house, the FCC wouldn't have allowed wireless phones at all. The Chicago Tribune ran a good article on the history of wireless. You should check it out and see where it all came from.

[Guest Paul [MVP]]

Why are so many americans so jealous of our mobile systems in Europe?

There's no denying that the European networks have been streets ahead in terms of coverage - admittedly easier in smaller countries, handset advancement - GSM handsets have definitely led the way, and most of all charging.

Paying to receive calls and messages? What's that about!

I'm pretty sure the take up of mobiles, and particularly things like SMS, has been much quicker in Europe.

Back to the Original argument, Motorola probably couldn't care less if Orange take the MPx200, they know lots of networks will - far more than took It's predecessor. I DO expect Orange to take it anyway.

Final word, who here in Europe would swap our mobile situation for that in the US? Very few I suspect... and the reverse? I know a LOT of Americans who would love our mobile systems...

Just my 2c :-)

P

PS No point having a great phone system - eg 1xRTT - if most of the handsets suck ;-)

Posted from my SmartPhone!

[Guest McHale]

"]Why are so many americans so jealous of our mobile systems in Europe?

Paying to receive calls and messages? What's that about!

PS No point having a great phone system - eg 1xRTT - if most of the handsets suck ;-)

Posted from my SmartPhone!

I need to respond in order:

1. I first started using GSM when I started working in Milan for Lucent. My phone was the p7389. Man, I loved that thing. I still use it and it sounds great. When I got back to Chicago, there wasn't a single tower it could find. :) I was bummed. SIM cards are so much cooler than being stuck with the phone they issue you.

2. We pay to receive messages and calls because American companies found out early they could charge for it. So they will. I will add that our pricing has reduced quite a bit and you can get like 2 billion minutes a month for about 30 bucks anymore. It's pretty cut throat. Also, here in the US, most people are on contracts where I know it was just the opposite in Europe. That's slowly changing in both places.

3. Yup. They do suck. The reason I posted again about the CDMA networks is that there are CDMA smartphones so theoretically the MPx220 could be made into a CDMA phone as well (e.g. Samsung). Also, Motorola has a phone coming out that does iDEN (GSM based proprietary network from Motorola and Nextel) and GSM. When I first started doing UMTS trials, my "handset" was so large it needed to be in the back of a pickup.

I'm still waiting to see what happens with WiFi. I think if more smartphones had the capability, it could be a potential revenue killer for some carriers. T-Mobile has embraced it but that's it here in the US.

Also, what people in the US don't realize is that many, many people in Europe don't have landlines. I didn't realize that until I left the US for the first time. I'm not sure of the numbers anymore but I think the US population is still like 90% have a landline. If that were the case here, mobile phones would take a much higher priority.

The only reason AT&T and Cingular even went GSM was because they were holding out for UMTS and were losing customers to T-Mobile, which didn't make sense. They had no coverage in the US, but cool phones. Verizon had cool phones and awesome coverage PLUS higher data rates. Had Cingular and AT&T not acted (giving birth to the 800 band), they would probably have lost most of their subscribers to Verizon.

Motorola does have a couple cool 3G phones close to release. All I want is the MPx220 with WiFi. Is that too much to ask?

I heard someone on here say that Nokia was going to die because of how great the MS Smartphones are. While personally, I don't see anything out there close to even the original SPV (other than newer smartphones of course), Nokia will always have their followers. Palm hasn't died yet and MS PocketPC's are better in every possible way.

-Mc

[Guest kr00t0n]

if orange do dump it, what are the chances of me say getting one from the states and unlocking it so my orange sim works in it?

[Guest Brody]

Its been possible with most other Smartphone so far given time... Patience would be my advice, if Orange don't release the MPx220 i'll be surprised...

[Guest martin]

McHale

What on earth are you talking about :roll:

The worlds 3G CDMA networks will be based upon the IMT-2000 standards set by the ITU (International Telecommunication Union) based in Geneva, Switzerland. IMT-2000 caters for both the existing CDMA2000 and the newer W-CDMA (Wideband CDMA).

ESTI (European Telecommunications Standards Institute) based in France were responsible for the 3G UMTS standardisation of W-CDMA. FOMA (Freedom of Mobile Multimedia Access) by NTT DoCoMo in Japan is also based on W-CDMA.

GSM should have been 1.5G but I'm not complaining. What has the world outside of the US done with it since then? Not much, they have GPRS and EDGE. Just minor advancements to old technology. What has the US done since 2G? Plenty - it's called 1xRTT.

Well lets see :P T-mobile USA is GSM. Cingular is GSM. AT&T is rolling out GSM. Hmmm, where did GSM come from ? Originally called 'Group Special Mobile', it was special group set up to specify European standards.

Next you'll tell me that AT&T are building a UMTS network :D

Now, to be considered 3G technology, the standard states that the minimum requirement for data rate is 146k average rate.

So what about this wonderful technology called CDMA2000 1x :) It seems that this technology somehow managed to get a 3G label although it is only a minor modification to the existing CDMA2000 network. I have seen several news items refering the US lagging behind Europe where 3G technology is concerned but The Register had a very interesting column on 1x.

In truth CDMA200 is only expected to compete with W-CDMA when in reaches 3x (note 3x is also part if the IMT-2000 standard).

GSM in all forms is a dead technology anyway. It's alive but soon to be abandoned technology speaking. The only path to 3G is CDMA (either in CDMA2000 or CDMA 1xRTT).

GSM will running for many years to come and there will certainly be no plans to abandon the technology. 3G UMTS and 2G GSM (+ EDGE) will co exists and handsets will contain both 2G and 3G radio stacks and this will even allow seamless handovers between both networks. A base station site will contain both 2G and 3G hardware. You don't ugrade the 2G hardware to 3G.

Only CDMA2000 has a path to 3G by upgrading it's existing network. W-CDMA is completely new network.

We have already successfully implemented 3G networks coast to coast (as well as have UMTS trials running for Cingular in Atlanta), my money is on the US for being light years ahead.

In the UK, Orange has already released it's UMTS network and so has Vodafone. O2 and T-mobile to follow shortly.

McHale, maybe if you bring your head of the sand and look across the water once in a while you will see that there is a lot happening over here. It's not all about the big old US of A :wink:

[Guest B@man]

Smoove , Martin, smoove.

[Guest McHale]

I got the same mis-informed grief last year when I said that AT&T and Cingular were going 850 and it would be on all their GSM phones before too long.

I think someone said it would destroy their business and would be a huge mistake.

God, I hate being right all the time.

-Mc

p.s. I'm aware of what GSM stands for. Why don't you look up the origins of it and get back to us. In the meantime, I'll save everyone else the trouble: It's a modification on the VERY old US standard called TDMA (Time Division Multiple Access).

I agree, GSM in Europe will be up for a long time. Hell, it's been what, 12 years? I don't expect any significant changes until the US has to bale everyone else out again... Here in the US, the FCC requires carriers to continue to support analog so that, and TDMA, and GSM will be up a while.

p.s.s. AT&T and Cingular have been running UMTS trials for a little while now. :) Here in the US, analog, TDMA, and GSM are operating on the same towers. What I'm saying is, you will need to use a CDMA phone when you want the features of 3G. You won't be able to swap a SIM from GSM to UMTS. You'll have to chose which technology you're going with. YOu can't have both (unless they make a GAIT phone like the ones we have here with TDMA and GSM).

[Guest jcjdoss]

McHale

What on earth are you talking about  :roll:  

The worlds 3G CDMA networks will be based upon the IMT-2000 standards set by the ITU (International Telecommunication Union) based in Geneva, Switzerland.  IMT-2000 caters for both the existing CDMA2000 and the newer W-CDMA (Wideband CDMA).

ESTI (European Telecommunications Standards Institute) based in France were responsible for the 3G UMTS standardisation of W-CDMA.  FOMA (Freedom of Mobile Multimedia Access) by NTT DoCoMo in Japan is also based on W-CDMA.

Well lets see :P T-mobile USA is GSM. Cingular is GSM. AT&T is rolling out GSM. Hmmm, where did GSM come from ? Originally called 'Group Special Mobile', it was special group set up to specify European standards.

Next you'll tell me that AT&T are building a UMTS network :D

So what about this wonderful technology called CDMA2000 1x :) It seems that this technology somehow managed to get a 3G label although it is only a minor modification to the existing CDMA2000 network. I have seen several news items refering the US lagging behind Europe where 3G technology is concerned but The Register had a very interesting column on 1x.

In truth CDMA200 is only expected to compete with W-CDMA when in reaches 3x (note 3x is also part if the IMT-2000 standard).

GSM will running for many years to come and there will certainly be no plans to abandon the technology. 3G UMTS and 2G GSM (+ EDGE) will co exists and handsets will contain both 2G and 3G radio stacks and this will even allow seamless handovers between both networks. A base station site will contain both 2G and 3G hardware. You don't ugrade the 2G hardware to 3G.

Only CDMA2000 has a path to 3G by upgrading it's existing network. W-CDMA is completely new network.

In the UK, Orange has already released it's UMTS network and so has Vodafone. O2 and T-mobile to follow shortly.

McHale, maybe if you bring your head of the sand and look across the water once in a while you will see that there is a lot happening over here. It's not all about the big old US of A :wink:

Yea,....That's what I meant to say..... :?

Oh well, i didn't do to bad for a tard.

Well, I hope you guys do get the MPX220.