Conspiracy theory: The pentagon and 9/11

[Guest geoffm33]

We definitely don't need to take all news at face value. But to think that the US Govt downed 4 planes killing over 3K us men/women and children is beyond preposterous. It is the kind of action that would need to have so many levels of involvement. Too many departments that it would cross party lines and would be impossible to pull off. And the only sources reporting on the conspiracy are these web sites. Half of which look like they were created by a 5th grader. Sorry, I just don't buy it.

[Guest benzo]

We definitely don't need to take all news at face value. But to think that the US Govt downed 4 planes killing over 3K us men/women and children is beyond preposterous. It is the kind of action that would need to have so many levels of involvement. Too many departments that it would cross party lines and would be impossible to pull off. And the only sources reporting on the conspiracy are these web sites. Half of which look like they were created by a 5th grader. Sorry, I just don't buy it.

Why is it so hard to believe that the US military/government are responsible for the deaths of innocent civilians? The US administration are responsible for the deaths of more than 10,000 civilians in Iraq through "precision bombing" and I'm not even sure how many have died in Afghanistan. Then there is the killing of innocent American civilians, e.g., Waco, Ruby Ridge etc.

Re: US media- ask yourself, does the mainstream US media ever report stories concerning the blatant deaths of innocent Iraqi/Afghani civilians at the hands of the US military? Probably not. So if they are not reporting blatant death, there is not a hope in hell that they will publish speculative stories addressing the "conspiracy" theories.

So please.. try and think out of the US-Republican box and actually think about the raw facts, and not the disseminated stuff that you read and watch.

[Guest ferret]

Why is it so hard to believe that the US military/government are responsible for the deaths of innocent civilians? The US administration are responsible for the deaths of more than 10,000 civilians in Iraq through "precision bombing" and I'm not even sure how many have died in Afghanistan. Then there is the killing of innocent American civilians, e.g., Waco, Ruby Ridge etc.

Here here.

[Guest Paul [MVP]]

Hey, I just thought it was a fascinating presentation, didn't realise it would spark such a debate!

P

Posted from my SmartPhone!

[Guest Blakey]

Did anyone catch the Sky One (in the UK) program on 9/11 last night? It basically covered most of these bases and was quite broad minded about what it said. Nothing new in anything they said that you can't find out on the Net with an hour or two's surfing.

IMHO, their conclusion was something like: There are many suspicious facts and things which don't add up. The government refuses to explain these incongruities (assumably for reasons of national security) and whilst they fail to explain them, some people will always cook up the most original, or most amusing or most clever or most far fetched "conspiracy theory" to fill the gaps.

The only way these theories will die is if the government disproves them, which it won't do because doing so will endanger national security. Or so they say... :-)

Thing is, just like JFK, We Will Never Know. End of story.

My tuppence on the whole subject.

Blakey

[Guest geoffm33]

Blakey, good post.

Benzo, 'blatant deaths' would imply that the US soldiers were intentionally trying to kill the Iraqi civilians. Next time you see a memeber of the US Armed services, ask his/her opinion on that. As terrible as any death is, those deaths are part of any war. Any war from the beginning of time has civilian casualties. But you know what? The future generations of those civilians won't have to worry about being killed by torture, rape, genocide at the hands of the former Iraqi regime.

[Guest benzo]

Blakey, good post.  

Benzo, 'blatant deaths' would imply that the US soldiers were intentionally trying to kill the Iraqi civilians. Next time you see a memeber of the US Armed services, ask his/her opinion on that. As terrible as any death is, those deaths are part of any war. Any war from the beginning of time has civilian casualties.  But you know what? The future generations of those civilians won't have to worry about being killed by torture, rape, genocide at the hands of the former Iraqi regime.

So I take it the torture, rape taking place in the Abu Ghraib prison at the hands of US forces doesn't count as the kind of torture/rape that you are talking about.

And are you trying to tell me that when coalition forces use cluster bombs they do not know that civilians will get killed? of course they do, therefore it becomes intentional. And you talk about war.. wasn't this an unsanctioned war started by Bush et al? Who attacked who?

I have many Iraqi friends.. and I confidently tell you that they want the US out of Iraq and consider the US forces as an occupation force, propping up a corrupt puppet regime (history repeating don't you think?). Don't believe everything FOX news spoon feeds you.

[Guest MorphFx]

I also watched the Sky One 'Conspiricay Theory 9/11' program Monday.

It covered most of the angles people have been suggesting, blakey sums it up quite well, but I thought the program seem to go off on a bit of a tangent towards the end, interviewing some crazy person waffling on about how the government use mobile phone signals to brainwash and program people', then the program sums up at the end and tries to trounce everything that was suggested ealier - but the trouncing seemed even more unconvincing than most of the conspiracy theories!

[Guest Paul [MVP]]

I missed it because I was upgrading my Media Center at the time it was on... doh!

P

[Guest MorphFx]

there was a program on ch4 last night about 911 conspiracy too - seems like a hell of a lot of people are re-thinking their ideas on what actually happened.

[Guest sparkisgti]

lets not run b4 we can walk.. so we need to resolve these 2 issues first

who really shot kennedy

and

did the US really land on the moon

:)

[Guest Disco Stu]

Watched the C4 program last night and am now in favour of the cock-up theory rather than the conspiracy. US "Intelligence" failures and general complacency seem to me to have allowed it to happen.

The thing is, a deplorable US foreign policy and the dodgy Bush / al-Saud dealings have made the current situation inevitable. The events of 9/11 would not have come as a surprise to anyone who was watching Israeli actions against the Palestinians at the time (along with other Western-sponsored nastiness.)

It is this sort of background that the American media consistently fails to comment on, hence all the "Why does everyone hate us" soul-searching after the event.

I do not in any way condone terrorism, am not anti-American (though loathe the neo-Cons in charge) nor anti-Semitic (though equally hate the current Israeli government).

Peace.

[Guest drblow]

:) Oh I love a conspiracy theory me!!

My advice is ... read as many different news websites as possible, then check the articles against the headlines at www.theinsider.org

Read a few books by Michael Moore. Do a little of your own research into the 'Knights Templar' organisation.

Make your own mind up from a good base of evidence ... at least that way when someone tries to argue, you'll sound infinately more knowledgeable when you can quote several references! :wink: