Guest Emad Posted January 7, 2003 Report Posted January 7, 2003 If it says in their t&c's that the definition of 'unlimited' is not to exceed 10Mb a day/50Mb a month, then there's no problem here.. How expensive is GPRS to Orange btw? Does anyone know? They're gonna have to make it a hell of a lot cheaper if they want lots of people using 2.5G services..
Guest ajb3000 Posted January 7, 2003 Report Posted January 7, 2003 Its not 10MB a day/50MB a month, that is for their roaming GPRS deal which has ended!!! For the SPV pack the T&Cs state a 'fair usage limit' of 10MB a month. Nowhere does it state you will be charge if you go over or at what rate you will be charged. It simply says they have the right to terminate the SPV pack if you abuse the service.
Guest spacemonkey Posted January 7, 2003 Report Posted January 7, 2003 The T&C's are one thing but the fact that Orange staff have been giving everyone completely different verbal stories on what the limitations of this "unlimited" service are is important. Legally even though there are written T&Cs it can be argued that the T&Cs are hard to interpret properly because of lack of information (such as what happens when you go over). If Orange employed staff have verbally told you what the behaviour of the package will be then that counts as an official interpretation of the T&Cs and as such they can't just turn around and say "this is on paper, sorry what we told you earlier but you're screwed". The best bet if Orange don't resolve the issue in a satisfactory manor is report it to Oftel and post back here the info we all need to report it to Oftel and get as many individual complaints in to Oftel on this subject as possible. If they realise it's not an isolated incident they'll hurt Orange regardless of any paper work because for a large group of consumers to all have been wrong about how this service works it MUST be Orange misrepresenting their products and services.
Guest Firaas Posted January 7, 2003 Report Posted January 7, 2003 Ok, just been reading the T&C's, and they clearly state that you would receive a warning, which if you ignored, would entitle Orange to disconnect you from the plan. Nowhere in the terms is Orange allowed to charge you more than £6, whether or not you go over - even after the 31st of April.
Guest tom Posted January 7, 2003 Report Posted January 7, 2003 Give 'em hell with the old "Don't you know who I am?" lines :-) Oh, and phone 'em up and explain why you've decided to cancel your contract. Should help a bit...
Guest tom Posted January 7, 2003 Report Posted January 7, 2003 One possible problem that makes me wonder about Orange's motives, is, as ever, BT. They advertised their ISP service, "anytime" I think it was, as being unlimited in much the same way that Orange have. Likewise, as soon as people used the service heavily, BT told them where to go. As far as I can recall, aside from a minor ticking off-type, BT have got away with it. Shame.
Guest Paul [MVP] Posted January 7, 2003 Report Posted January 7, 2003 OK, so i've just spoken to the 'Orange Customer Relations Billing Line', and got absolutely nowhere. Basically: - At any point past 10MB Orange can start billing you. They may or may not. - The cost is £8 per MB when you exceed your 'unlimited' usage. - According to the SPV Pack T&Cs they had 'in front of them', they have no obligation to notify you when they start charging. - There is no functionality on the SPV to check your GPRS usage (obviously). - There is no enquiry line provided to check your GPRS usage. Basically, tough sh!t, we can do what we like. I will be speaking urgently to my contact within Orange, and directing them to this thread, for an official response. :D P
Guest yzbob Posted January 7, 2003 Report Posted January 7, 2003 what number did you ring i think i need to call them at lunch time cause im startin to worry about my bill!! everyone should keep phoning the same orange number could we agree on a number to call? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- A massive orange phone bill comming soon to a doorstep near you!!
Guest spacemonkey Posted January 7, 2003 Report Posted January 7, 2003 They advertised their ISP service, "anytime" I think it was, as being unlimited in much the same way that Orange have. There is a big difference between the words anytime which actually refered more to you can use the service anytime and doesn't really refer at all to your level of usage and the word unlimited that suggests you can use it as much as you like. Also, BT just kicks people off the lines or cancells their subscriptions for abuse of the terms, they don't come back and charge £8/Mb (which seems excessive to me considering that the 10Mb per month "limited" package charges you only £2.50/Mb beyond the included traffic) Also, what constitutes normal usage, in my first month I used 5 Mb with fairly limited use at all, add to that the fact I was overseas and didn't use my phone for 2 weeks of that month. So realistically if I'd been there the full month I'd have hit 10Mb and I barely use my phone, just a small ammount of MSN when I'm away from pcs and a little bit of web browsing...
Guest tom Posted January 7, 2003 Report Posted January 7, 2003 There is a big difference between the words anytime which actually refered more to you can use the service anytime and doesn't really refer at all to your level of usage and the word unlimited that suggests you can use it as much as you like. Is there really that much of a difference? I'm not a lawyer, but from a technic standpoint they're the same thing, surely? Both have permanent connection, downloading however much you like at the maximum speed you can. Also, BT just kicks people off the lines or cancells their subscriptions for abuse of the terms, they don't come back and charge £8/Mb (which seems excessive to me, isn't that high even compared to their normal tarriffs?) They're bastards, quite frankly. On the plus side, my credit rating's bad enough that an extra mark appearing won't do me too bad. It's always fun to tell people you have no intention of paying...
Guest Sculli Posted January 7, 2003 Report Posted January 7, 2003 "the SPV pack The purchase of the SPV phone is subject to connection to the SPV promotional pack. It provides unlimited web browsing, email and access to a great range of information and entertainment services (terms and conditions apply) and costs £6 per month on top of your existing Service Plan. The pack can be purchased until 31st March 2003 and runs until 30th April 2003. At the end of the promotional period you will automatically be changed onto an equal or lower priced GPRS bundle with a megabyte cap." Can't actually find the T&Cs for "the SPV pack" on their website. Oh, and I've added the bold to unlimited, not Orange. It's certainly very suggestive! Sculli
Guest Paul [MVP] Posted January 7, 2003 Report Posted January 7, 2003 I called 152. I have now directed my contact in the Orange Press Office to this thread, and eagerly await a reponse. P
Guest icornish Posted January 7, 2003 Report Posted January 7, 2003 I had my December bill just after I upgraded and had all the GPRS stuff done. I was surprised to see I had been charged for GPRS data!!! I called O, and was eventually told (after going round the houses) that I had not been put on the SPV Pack, and hence was charged for GPRS usage. I was offered a credit on my next bill (waiting for it now...) Now, what happens when I get my next bill . . .
Guest Bazz Posted January 7, 2003 Report Posted January 7, 2003 Not impressed. I ordered mine over the phone from Orange as an upgrade and was not told the T&C and never received them with the phone. We can't force them to ower their costs. Yes their GPRS costs are high, but you can't really argue with that as long as you know what they are. With the "unlimited" option we didn't know what the costs where involved if we broke the limit, when we broke the limit or even what the limit was. We could all just keep replacing our SPVs until we get a faultless one (i.e. never) - it'll cost Orange a fortune! ;-) Barry
Guest strathclydezero Posted January 7, 2003 Report Posted January 7, 2003 I have never been shown any T&C - all I was asked in the O shop was whether I wanted the unlimited GPRS package.
Guest aponia1 Posted January 7, 2003 Report Posted January 7, 2003 Does anyone know if an organisation that can protect customers from cheap 'unlimited' marketing tricks exists in UK? Maybe we should all consider ask for their help.
Guest spacemonkey Posted January 7, 2003 Report Posted January 7, 2003 Does anyone know if an organisation that can protect customers from cheap 'unlimited' marketing tricks exists in UK? Maybe we should all consider ask for their help. Since Orange is a phone company Oftel would be a good place (www.oftel.gov.uk) However before sending them a customer complaint you need to make sure you have complained through all the correct channels at Orange and got no satisfactory resolution. Otherwise Oftel will quite rightly tell you to go back and pursue your claim with Orange. So, complain to Orange, get them to tell you that it's tough like they did Paul and then go and log a complaint with Oftel.
Guest yzbob Posted January 7, 2003 Report Posted January 7, 2003 i just spoke to debbie on 152 and she directed me to the following link http://www.orange.co.uk/service_plans/pay_...plan/terms.html Orange Access pack The Orange Access pack You subscribe to will depend on the technology your phone uses to access WAP. If You have a GPRS enabled phone You should request Orange GPRS Access pack. If You do not have a GPRS enabled phone You should request an Orange CSD Access pack. You are only allowed to subscribe to one Orange GPRS Access pack and/or one Orange CSD Access pack per account in any one billing cycle. You may request to cancel your Orange Access pack at anytime by giving at least five days notice before your billing date. Any changes You make to your Orange Access pack will take effect from your next billing date. Any unused Orange Access pack will not be rolled over to the following month. Orange Access pack can only be used to access Orange WAP sites while in the UK and will require the use of a WAP enabled phone. Orange GPRS Access pack is subject to a fair usage policy of 10MB. Subscribers exceeding this limit may be charged at the Orange Your Plan rates. Orange CSD Access pack is subject to a fair usage policy of 200 minutes. Subscribers exceeding this limit may be charged at the Orange Your Plan rates. im at work so didnt have time to pursuit phone call but have a look and let me know what u lot think?
Guest Joner39 Posted January 7, 2003 Report Posted January 7, 2003 To ensure the availability of this promotion we ask that you restrict your usage to a maximum of 10 MB per day and no more than 50 MB in any one-month. We may request users exceeding this limit to reduce their usage of this service. If usage continues above this limit then we reserve the right to remove this facility from your account for the duration of the free promotion. Do you notice that at NO POINT, does it state you will be charged??? Just warned or barred????
Guest Shuflie Posted January 7, 2003 Report Posted January 7, 2003 To see terms & conditions for promotional pack go to http://www.orange.co.uk/business/products/orangespv/ and click on promotion pack. This is what you get. There is a worrying bit in there about Picture messaging for anyone who is using the the free MMS server mentioned in another post. The purchase of the Orange SPV is subject to connection to the Orange SPV promotional pack. It provides unlimited web browsing, email and access to a great range of information and entertainment services (terms and conditions apply) and costs £6 per month on top of your existing Service Plan. The pack can be purchased until 31st March 2003 and runs until 30th April 2003. At the end of the promotional period you will automatically be changed onto an equal or lower priced GPRS bundle with a megabyte cap. Subject to terms and conditions below "Orange" means Orange Personal Communications Services Limited, St James Court, Great Park Road, Almondsbury Park, Bradley Stoke, Bristol BS32 4QJ. "You" means any person who purchases a SPV smart phone ("SPV") in conjunction with the SPV promotion pack which is a value added data service ("Promotional Data Service"). Eligibility The Promotional Data Service is only available to personal and small business Orange subscribers who purchase or upgrade to an SPV device on any currently available published Orange pay monthly Service Plan (excluding OVP call charges matched to Virgin Mobile, all Talkshare agreements and all corporate tariffs) during the promotional dates of 28 October 2002 to 30 April 2003 inclusive. Subscribers purchasing or upgrading to an SPV device during the promotional dates as specified above and who match the above criteria also agree to be connected the Promotional Data Service and the applicable conditions of use as set at below. Conditions of Use The Promotional Data Service provides access via GPRS, subject to a fair usage policy as set out below, to the Internet, email and WAP whilst in the UK. Any access to these services outside the UK will be charged at Orange standard International rates. SMS Text Messaging or Photo Messaging cannot be sent using your Promotional Data Service. Subscribers connecting to the Promotional Data Service after the 28 October 2002 will benefit from the remainder of the 6-month promotional period. The Promotional Data Service will be withdrawn from all subscribers at midnight on the 30 April 2003 regardless of when You subscribed to the Promotional Data Service. The monthly charge of £6.00 for the Promotional Data Service is in addition to all other service plan charges which must include one core voice tariff i.e. your plan 30. The charges are payable in advance and will be added to your Orange account each month. The Promotional Data Service will be activated automatically on connection or registration of an upgrade. However, the first months subscription may be adjusted according to your billing date and the monthly charge, where applicable, will be reduced on a pro rata basis. The Promotional Data Service may be deactivated at any time during the promotion by giving at least 5 days notice before your billing date. The Promotional Data Service is not available in conjunction with any other data access pack and/or service. The Promotional Data Service is subject, at all times, to a fair usage policy as set out below. Orange reserves the right to request that subscribers exceeding the limits set out below reduce their usage. In the event that usage continues to exceed these limits, Orange may at its discretion remove the Promotional Data Service from your account and refuse to allow reconnection to this service. Currently high usage of the Promotional Data Service is defined as 10MB. The above limits are subject to change and we will publicise any changes on orange.co.uk The Promotional Data Service is not available on Line 2. At the end of the promotion Orange will automatically connect you to a GPRS Bundle. The GPRS Bundle selected will be based on your usage throughout the promotion and the associated costs of our available GPRS Bundles at the time of migration, for the avoidance of doubt the chosen GPRS Bundle will not exceed the current monthly charge of the Promotional Data Service. Orange will advise you of the chosen GPRS Bundle and associated costs at least 14 days in advance of the migration. Customers will be able to cancel or change the amount of their GPRS Bundle at anytime by giving at least 5 days notice prior to your monthly billing date. Orange reserves the right to amend, vary or cancel these terms and conditions or to withdraw the Promotional Data Service at any time after giving reasonable notice. Service is subject to the Standard Terms and Conditions for the Supply of Orange Network Services, a copy of which can be found at the back of your Orange phone User Guide. Where there is any inconsistency between these Terms and Conditions, and the Standard Terms and Conditions for the Supply of Orange Network Services, the latter will prevail.
Guest Paul [MVP] Posted January 7, 2003 Report Posted January 7, 2003 Joner39 - where are you quoting from? Are these conditions online? It seems the GPRS Access Pack and the SPV GPRS Pack may have different T&Cs? P
Guest Joner39 Posted January 7, 2003 Report Posted January 7, 2003 http://www.orange.co.uk/talkplans/gprs/terms.html
Guest Deako Posted January 7, 2003 Report Posted January 7, 2003 Well, we all knew it was capped to 10mb.
Guest Paul [MVP] Posted January 7, 2003 Report Posted January 7, 2003 Yeah, except it's not. If it was capped to 10MB, which is fine, then it would stop any usage above this (as stated in the T&Cs!)
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