Is the C500 a smartphone

[Guest mike_freegan]

Please note, although this does describe some bugs, it is not a bug specific message and so is not in the bugs thred.

So I sold my precious symbian running Sony Ericsson P800 2 days ago and bought an SPV C500.

Firstly I was very impressed by the small size, solid feel and 200mhz processor. However, I then turned the phone on...

The C500 is sold as a smartphone, but lacks MANY features even the most basic of commercial crap offers.

1. Why does it take soooooooo long to boot up a phone, which compared to symbian a very basic OS, even on a 200mhz processor?

2. The Icons in the menu are small and tacky looking and non cutomizable as standard.

3. You can't send a contact via SMS. My dad's ancient Nokia could do that half a decade ago.

4. There appears to be no "select all" options anywhere. Makes sending stuff wirelessly to laptops extra fun, or sending a message to all your contacts in a certain group.

5. No send option next to pictures or other multimedia so it wastes time trying to find the right one in file explorer or memorizing the name.

6. The "send via infrared" function which is meant to send via bluetooth as well doesn't! It just gets stuck searching for bluetooth devices which it can find when sending contacts.

7. Whenever I install an app it installs crap on my nice new laptop. On symbian you can just send the installer file to the device, then send the app to your friends from your phone too!

8. Limited to very small files recieved over BT/IR. Even though you have the most expensive and smoothest video playback phone in the office / classroom you cannot enjoy the hilarious videos send around to each other, or send files wirelessly from a laptop.

I am aware that you can install your own apps to correct many of these functions, but that's not the point! These are VERY basic features of any modern phone that should come as standard and which are un-necessarily complicated.

Installing these apps is expense and time that a smartphone user shouldn't have to waste.

In my opinon, compared to even basic Symbian devices such as the N-gage, the C500 although hi-tech in hardware is PRIMITIVE, poorly designed and awkward in function.

Tomorrow I am returning to the Orange shop and begging for my money back.

-Mike

[Guest gpcarreon (MVP)]

To answer some of your rants...

2. The Icons in the menu are small and tacky looking and non cutomizable as standard.

> You mean the homescreen icons? They are customizable: http://n.domaindlx.com/gpcarreon/abaxia/

3. You can't send a contact via SMS. My dad's ancient Nokia could do that half a decade ago.

> Try RJV SendContact

4. There appears to be no "select all" options anywhere. Makes sending stuff wirelessly to laptops extra fun, or sending a message to all your contacts in a certain group.

> Try SmartSMS. It will let you send to group you specify.

5. No send option next to pictures or other multimedia so it wastes time trying to find the right one in file explorer or memorizing the name.

> Try SmartExplorer. You can send pix/files via IR or Bluetooth. Also the built-in IA Album can send pix via MMS or eMail.

8. Limited to very small files recieved over BT/IR. Even though you have the most expensive and smoothest video playback phone in the office / classroom you cannot enjoy the hilarious videos send around to each other, or send files wirelessly from a laptop.

> Was able to send an 8MB file via IR...using just the SPV e100. Are you trying to transfer a 1Gb file?

Finally...going back to your post's title...H*ll yeah it IS a Smartphone! :(

EDIT: 37 views with only 1 reply? C'mon Typhoon users...speak up before Mike begs for his money back. :lol:

[Guest xerxes]

Actually he has a point about not being able to send contacts via SMS. RJVSendContact is a useful piece of freeware but it doesn't have a very good way of searching for the contact (scroooooolllll) and it only sends the mobile number.

Even more annoying is the inabililty to RECEIVE an sms with a contact in it. My wife sent me a contact from her Nokia and my C500 never even registered that it had received anything!

Having said that, I think the c500 stills kicks the arse of every other smartphone on the market - at least for the kind of things I want to do with it. And believe me I've tried A LOT!

[Guest Pondrew]

Better take it back as most of the things in your list are either easy to do or just plain wrong.

The C500 icons aren't customisable... I don't think I'll even touch that one as it's like suggesting the sun doesn't shine.

The C500 is the most expensive smartphone? What are you on? Have you seen the pricetag of the P910i? Or all the other smartphones for that matter?

And symbian lets you transfer the installation file onto the phone so you can transfer it to your friends phones? Well guess what, so does Windows Mobile, you just haven't worked out how! :twisted:

Unfortunately your post, whether it was intended to or not, puts across an unwillingness to persevere with the os. If you'd just ASKED us how to do those things we'd have told you.

@Pzee, I expect most of the folks who viewed this felt the same hence the lack of responses. :lol:

Probably best to go for Symbian again as it's what you're used to, but if you do want any more info on using your Smartphone (note the capital S) then we'll be here...

Edited February 9, 2005 by Pondrew

[Guest shaund316]

1. Why does it take soooooooo long to boot up a phone, which compared to symbian a very basic OS, even on a 200mhz processor?

2. The Icons in the menu are small and tacky looking and non cutomizable as standard.

3. You can't send a contact via SMS.  My dad's ancient Nokia could do that half a decade ago.

4. There appears to be no "select all" options anywhere.  Makes sending stuff wirelessly to laptops extra fun, or sending a message to all your contacts in a certain group.

5. No send option next to pictures or other multimedia so it wastes time trying to find the right one in file explorer or memorizing the name.

6. The "send via infrared" function which is meant to send via bluetooth as well doesn't!  It just gets stuck searching for bluetooth devices which it can find when sending contacts.

7.  Whenever I install an app it installs crap on my nice new laptop. On symbian you can just send the installer file to the device, then send the app to your friends from your phone too!

8.  Limited to very small files recieved over BT/IR.  Even though you have the most expensive and smoothest video playback phone in the office / classroom you cannot enjoy the hilarious videos send around to each other, or send files wirelessly from a laptop.

I am aware that you can install your own apps to correct many of these functions, but that's not the point!  These are VERY basic features of any modern phone that should come as standard and which are un-necessarily complicated. 

-Mike

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's windows, what did u expect? :exclaim:

its a good phone when u get used 2 it. I've had symbians but windows is a lot more polished, but symbian doesnt freeze much

personal taste probably

[Guest tudor]

Mike has a point. Microsoft should address the usability of the Windows series. There are basic tasks that are imposible to do without aditional software, or are cumbersome.

Just how many people know how to receive a file over Bluetooth on a Windows XP SP2 machine? Why is the File Transfer Profile disabled by default in XP SP2?

Why doesn't the phone allow people to send images over Bluetooth? Do they expect people to e-mail themselves the pictures using the phone in order to get them on their computer?

I know you can do this using third party software, but... one pays for the phone and expects that software to be built in. I wonder when we'll buy phones that will need a third party application to make a call!?!

I had a Nokia 6600 before my C500, and I am very happy with the C500 - but that's because I know my way around computers. For a non-techie, Symbian does a much better job from the usability point of view.

[Guest Confused Stu]

As someone said earlier, this all comes down to personal taste. When I was looking for a phone, I used to get one then spend a few weeks finding out how to use it. Then I'd get bored and count the days til my contract was up and I could change it.

When I bought a PC, I went for one that was the best it could be coming out of the box, then set about adding on programs that made it do what I wanted it to do. Basically, you have to use this mentality when buying a Smartphone. You buy the basic phone, then decide if you want to make it a business phone, a gaming phone, or just a show off phone that does lots of things purely because you'd NEVER expect it to be able to!

In short, it's a change in mindset you need when you're switching from a phone to a Smartphone. Don't ask what it can do out of the box, ask what it's capable of doing.

[Guest argh]

6. The "send via infrared" function which is meant to send via bluetooth as well doesn't!  It just gets stuck searching for bluetooth devices which it can find when sending contacts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've heard that this is Oranges fault, as they disabled it in the standard apps. Not sure if that's true though.

[Guest Confused Stu]

I've heard that Orange disabled it too (somewhere else on the forums). Not sure if it's true as I've always used SmartExplorer from www.binarys.com since my first SPV. Took one look at the included File Manager on my C500, went "urgh!" and downloaded SmartExplorer. Haven't looked at the installed File Manager since!

[Guest dave106]

6. The "send via infrared" function which is meant to send via bluetooth as well doesn't!  It just gets stuck searching for bluetooth devices which it can find when sending contacts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sending files only works when your bonded with another phone.

[Guest tudor]

Sending files only works when your bonded with another phone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My C500 is bonded with my PC's TDK BT adapter. It can send contacts, which I receive as VCF files, but it doesn't find my computer when trying to send files from File Explorer.

[Guest Tomas Kocanda]

1. Why does it take soooooooo long to boot up a phone, which compared to symbian a very basic OS, even on a 200mhz processor?

A: how long will boot up your WM-PDA? It´s OS what you need to compare it, not symbian, what is in my eyes very basic OS.

2. The Icons in the menu are small and tacky looking and non cutomizable as standard.

A: So what? I look for application names in the menu (if you mean program list in start...). What I really use 100 times a day is my homescreen, what I can personally modify to my needs - and it´s total modification including background, all information, tasks, calendar items etc. Can you do it on your Symbian device as easy as we can do using Homescreen Designer or editing the XML code?

3. You can't send a contact via SMS. My dad's ancient Nokia could do that half a decade ago.

A: You are right. In standard is not possible to send the VCard. But on the other hand, if I will send you my totally outlook compatible contact with about dozen details and notes, can you handle it on your phone? Probably not. Maybe that´s reason, why is it not implemented. And everybody can install free application to allow sending numbers from contacts by SMS or you can use even oldest xBar to copy and past any phone number in the SMS. But, I can synchronise my contacts with all details in unicode (!) as well as tasks, calendar items and notes (using third party application) automatically or manually and it works 100% perfect. I never saw any other phone able to do such high level of integration like this. Enterprise users can even synchronise Lotus Notes or Lotus Domino... BTW, sending and receiving VCards will be soon possible using application from Sunnysoft as well as automatical replacement of numbers in SMS messages by links to contacts (if exists).

4. There appears to be no "select all" options anywhere. Makes sending stuff wirelessly to laptops extra fun, or sending a message to all your contacts in a certain group.

A: No problem at all. You can use very intuitive file manager for selecting and sending anything to anywhere via BT for example. Sending message to a group is possible and very simple (application is from third party, but it does not matter, many applications what are delievered with the phone are created by third parties anyway) and you can even block certain contacts or groups of contacts manually or automatically, so they will not disturb you. Can you do it on Symbian phones?

5. No send option next to pictures or other multimedia so it wastes time trying to find the right one in file explorer or memorizing the name.

A: What do you mean by "next to pictures" or "next to multimedia"? Do you mean next to the file options in the file manager pre-installed by the operator? Correct. Install another file manager (free), what does this. And you can even send it directly from the multimedia album by MMS or as e-mail attachment. Simple.

6. The "send via infrared" function which is meant to send via bluetooth as well doesn't! It just gets stuck searching for bluetooth devices which it can find when sending contacts.

A: Your phone works different way then mine. I have Nokia 6310i and when I pair those two phones, then is enough to find any contact in my QTek, select beam, wait about second to find the Nokia phone (pend), press a button and contact is received on the Nokia. Need anything else?

7. Whenever I install an app it installs crap on my nice new laptop. On symbian you can just send the installer file to the device, then send the app to your friends from your phone too!

A: It´s not true. Some applications are installed ONLY in the phone. Some need PC files for interconnectivity (like synchronisation, typical example is CodeWallet or Sprite Backup). Most of applications is possible to install only by .CAB file directly in the phone or alternativelly you can simply untinstall the remaining PC bits in the PC control panel. But, it may be helpfull sometimes to have record of the installed applications as is possible to uninstall it from the phone (for example after restore after hard reset) using installer utility from Active Sync.

Second part is simple - are you asking for easy way how to share applications between users? :lol:

8. Limited to very small files recieved over BT/IR. Even though you have the most expensive and smoothest video playback phone in the office / classroom you cannot enjoy the hilarious videos send around to each other, or send files wirelessly from a laptop.

A: What type of device have you tried to send/receive it? I can transfer ANY of my audio/video/photo files including like XXMB video files over BT to/from my PC. I had only one problem sending larger file over BT - and it was Symbian one the other side (Nokia communicator). IR is slow, but even so I several times shared whole MP3 album with my friend, from one card to another (both devices were old HTC e100).

I am aware that you can install your own apps to correct many of these functions, but that's not the point! These are VERY basic features of any modern phone that should come as standard and which are un-necessarily complicated.

A: YES. Smartphone IS not for everybody. This phone offers unlimited or near-unlimited customisations options, but it´s definitelly not turn on and play device. It´s more or less like PC. On the other hand, SMARTphone in my eyes MUST offer total customisation, full e-mail/contacts/calendar/tasks synchronisation with 100% reliability (this is most important thing what I need on top of calling other people), other things are optional for me. But really 100% compatibility with Outlooks is essential for me and probably for everybody, who use the phone for WORK and not for fun only. I could have PDA and good regular phone combo, but Smartphone can do the job easy and - unlike PDA - offers single hand operation, what is on PDA impossible. Have you tried to find contact on PDA by one hand during driving? I know, not legal, but... It´s not 100% PDA and not 100% phone, but I think we are on 85% of the PDA and perhaps 95% of the phone. Enough for me. I was happy even with the old 2002 phone, new one is flying in compare of speed and offers totally new options like BT support for example.

In my opinon, compared to even basic Symbian devices such as the N-gage, the C500 although hi-tech in hardware is PRIMITIVE, poorly designed and awkward in function.

A: For you is perhaps primitive, for professional users is perhaps primitive specifically designed Symbian masterpiece like new Nokia Communicator, what my friend returned after about one week, when he experienced such horrible problems with synchronisation data, unicode support (essential in case when your native language is not English) etc. Well, for me was this Symbian example expensive (I can buy two QTek 8010 for the price of one communicator) and under developed.

Tomorrow I am returning to the Orange shop and begging for my money back.

A: Good idea. Is clear that the phone is NOT designed for you. Buy something, what is more for smart-gaming or smart-sharing-cracked-and-stolen-applications and keep the Smartphone for people, who use it and can benefit using it.

Unfortunatelly, it´s not like wars between PC and MAC users in past (as now is Mac with new OSX.x even WORSE then PC). This is like comparing computer (where you have to care about everything, but you can also customise it to your needs) with devices, where is customisation limited, but user requirements are much lower. In the future may be both alongside each other, but I think, most people will learn how to use and customise computer and will not have problem doing the same thing on the PDA or on the phone. At the moment I can install Smartphone probably in the same time as people install new PDA. Only difference is and what many many people hate, that there are no cracks and serialz available for Smartphone. But for professional users it does not matter. I probably spent more then the cost of the phone in purchasing software for it. Maybe 50% was useless as I see now. I would be happy to see the software 10x cheaper but on the other hand, it´s developed and the developers should get some money for their work. Most of software is not drastically expensive.

P. S. I´m sorry for my poor English. Trying to express things, what is not easy to say even in my native language :(

[Guest gpcarreon (MVP)]

The C500 icons aren't customisable...

> The Start Menu icons? Uhmm... :-#

I expect most of the folks who viewed this felt the same hence the lack of responses.

> @Pondrew...that could be the case.

I believe it all boils down to personal preferences...to each his own.

So any other responses from Smart users of Smartphone?

[Guest jporch316]

I dont know about anyone else but the reason i got a smartphone was because i could install third party apps and customise the phone to death.

I also got a strange dislike for Nokia phones - I like to be different!

[Guest tudor]

I dont know about anyone else but the reason i got a smartphone was because i could install third party apps and customise the phone to death.

I also got a strange dislike for Nokia phones - I like to be different!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can install apps on Nokia too, on the Symbian ones. Java is not really an option, as it's too slow.

In my opinion, the main advantage of the Microsoft smartphone over Symbian is the home screen, which you can't get on the Symbian phones I know of.

[Guest tudor]

And now, to bitch about it even more, there one thing that you can't do on MS smarthpone (as far as I know), but you can do it on Symbian: use local (on the phone) answering machine, save money on listening to voice messages (for those who need to pay for it), have custom voice messages for each contact etc.

[Guest mike_freegan]

"The C500 is the most expensive smartphone" - I meant installing the apps that cost money that you need to bring this crappy phone up to standard is an expense, not the phone itself.

"If you'd just ASKED us how to do those things we'd have told you." I know how to do alot, I'm just pointing out its things that SHOULD come as standard and are made awkward or not done very well at all. You shouldn't have to d/l 3rd party apps to perform very basic functions.

"For a non-techie, Symbian does a much better job from the usability point of view." My point is, although I do understand how to do this stuff, a smartphone should make things easier, not awkward and harder. Symbian is just better thought out to make difficult tasks easier, as opposed to Microsoft who although use excellent hardware have SERIOUSLY cut corners and not thought out this OS. My friends CrappyNokia 6230 (I HATE the 6230 fones beyond belief) has some functions my 200mhz smartfone doesn't... Thats the extent of the crapness of this software!

"I know you can do this using third party software, but... one pays for the phone and expects that software to be built in. I wonder when we'll buy phones that will need a third party application to make a call!?!" - EXACTLY! On my P800 (like 3 years ago!) I could look at a pic and press "send via bluetooth". There is no way on this fone you can go thru my thumbnails with my friends, let them pick a picture and press send! It's embarrassing that people in my class with primitive commercial crap are calling a SMARTPHONE awkward and crap.

"In short, it's a change in mindset you need when you're switching from a phone to a Smartphone. Don't ask what it can do out of the box, ask what it's capable of doing." - I have come from a different smartphone platform. I bought my p800 knowing that it was capable of so much with a little effort. However at the same time, there are basic features one expects not to have to add yourself. For example, the first thing I wanted to do with this "business" smartphone was to send my new number and address in a business card to all my contacts. First there is no select all contacts feature... lame... I think saegem toy phones do that. Second, you can't send business cards.

Not one, but two problems with something that should come as standard! That is appauling! If I install a 3rd party app to do this then the contacts icon on my homescreen will be obsolete.

"how long will boot up your WM-PDA? It´s OS what you need to compare it, not symbian, what is in my eyes very basic OS." - Simple but 10x as effective. On a mobile device, Symbian have accounted for the limited capabilites of a mobile phone whereas Microsoft have not. Also, the Symbian software is better and quicker.

"Can you do it on your Symbian device as easy as we can do using Homescreen Designer or editing the XML code?" - Yes, but the symbian desktop icons don't need changing. I'm not too arsed about the icons, but they don't look as impressive as the rest of the phones display.

"and you can even block certain contacts or groups of contacts manually or automatically, so they will not disturb you. Can you do it on Symbian phones?" - You're joking?! Think of anything you like about SPV, even with 3rd party apps (which risk making your handset unstable) and I guarantee P910 (symbians offering of around the same time) will do it 10x better as standard for 99% of apps.

"And you can even send it directly from the multimedia album by MMS or as e-mail attachment. Simple." I want to find the pic I want quickly by the thumbnails an press send when I find the one I want. as there is no thumbnail view in smartexplorer I have to try and remember the name of the pic/media I want to send. How hard would it have been to put a send via IR/BT option below the "send via email/mms" option? Just another example of Microsoft cutting corners and not really thinking about it. The handset is clearly capable of sending via bluetooth as Smartexplorer can do it, so why is this function not included as standard in the media viewer software for ease of use? My file explrorer won't even send via bluetooth as apparantly orange have limited it!

": Your phone works different way then mine. I have Nokia 6310i and when I pair those two phones, then is enough to find any contact in my QTek, select beam, wait about second to find the Nokia phone (pend), press a button and contact is received on the Nokia. Need anything else?" - Read what I said properly. It WILL find BT devices when sending contacts, but not when sending other files. There is no reasonable explanation for this other than shoddy software from Orange/Microsoft.

Oh, I spell smartphone with no captial when reffering to smartphones in general (be it Microsoft, Symbian, Blackberry etc). A smartphone does not have to be made by Microsoft and so a small 's' will do when describing a general smartphone is gramatically correct. When referring to the Microsoft Smartphone however I use a capital as it is something's name.

"I dont know about anyone else but the reason i got a smartphone was because i could install third party apps and customise the phone to death.

I also got a strange dislike for Nokia phones - I like to be different!" - My sentiments exactly! But you shouldn't have to start installing junk that (lets face it) is difficult to use. The home screen as far as I can tell is designed for the pre-installed apps. by adding 3rd partys to do things that fone already does b ut not properly you might as well as well not use the homescree shortcuts.

"In my opinion, the main advantage of the Microsoft smartphone over Symbian is the home screen, which you can't get on the Symbian phones I know of." - You can put whatever shortcuts you like on Sony-Ericsson Pxxx "home screen". It will alert you of any new calls/emails/sms/appointments etc.

I use my phone as a key part of my life. I use it for fun, organizing, business and internet and I'm afraid the previous smartphone I have used come with at least a useable standard of applications. Although I do use 3rd party apps, I prefer the ones that come witht he phone as they usually do the job better and look smoother, however Microsoft have cut serious corners. You should only need to customize your smartphone (or any phone) to do extra functions, not basic things you expect with any modern phone.

I LOVE getting new gadgets and learning how to use them, but I'm afraid the Microsoft mobile smartphone platform is just poor by any standard. I think if the users of this forum (business or fun or just tech geeks such as myself) each go hold of a UIQ symbian phone, your C500's would end up on ebay within a week.

Think about everything you LOVE about your C500, think how it could be made easier and "smarter", times]s that by 100 and you get Sony Ericsson P910.

Alternatively, every annoying thing about my P800, which I though could be improved on, or is slightly awkward compared to other apps on the handset is nicely summarized in the C500. I stand by my previous statement - AMAZING handset, AMAZING spec., APPAULING software. I think someone said in a previous thread, it is noticable that MS are new to making phones.

"I wonder when we'll buy phones that will need a third party application to make a call!?!" - Again, couldn't have summarized it better myself! It's like buying a car with no suspension and then having someone argue that "you could put suspension in it if you pay and spend time doing it. Also it will be from a 3rd parts so don't expect it to work amazingly. You're in for a bumpy ride but you're just gonna have to put up with it."

Some things you expect to work as standard and with minimal hastle in a moder phone and the software here is just poor.

Rant over.

-Mike x

(ps. I appreciate not having my head bitten off! You're all nice people and very helpful but I think some of you have missed my point. Try a P910 and give it a while to get used to it. Unless you want something crazy like a guitar tuner, or to play vids with dodgy codecs there is no need to install 3rd party apps for ANYTHING other than viewing word etc... maybe not even that!)

[Guest tudor]

"In my opinion, the main advantage of the Microsoft smartphone over Symbian is the home screen, which you can't get on the Symbian phones I know of." - You can put whatever shortcuts you like on Sony-Ericsson Pxxx "home screen".  It will alert you of any new calls/emails/sms/appointments etc.

Mike,

You compare C500 with Pxx, which is not really fair. C500 can be compared with a Series 60 device, as both are designed for single-handed operation.

Series 60 phones don't offer any home screen customisation, no appointments, weather, tasks etc. on the screen. That's important to me, to see what's next in my schedule, not to have to look in my calendar all the time.

The UIQ series should be compared with devices like iMate Jam, which, in my opinion, are superior to the UIQs.

Tudor

[Guest mike_freegan]

BTW, seriously considering the XDAii on 02 as it's now only £80 due to XDA2i/XDA2s's release!

I played on my friend's and most of the annoying little things on my Microsoft Smartphone OS are corrected on the XDAii's regular MS mobile OS.

However I know that I would end up snapping it in my pocket as it's so huge! That's what I love abput the SPV. The hardware is spectacular! Video playback is amazing ang the screen is so sharp. The screen is large for such a small phone too. It feels so solid and I think the keypad is nicely designed. Not looking forward to this dust problem though. Does everyone get that?

Hmm... £150 for P910. 262k colour screen. Huge resolution. Managable size. 20 days standby. I think we have a winner! Now I just need £150!

[Guest mike_freegan]

You compare C500 with Pxx, which is not really fair. C500 can be compared with a Series 60 device, as both are designed for single-handed operation.

An excellent point! However, Pxxx will work 90% of the functions flip closed. I'm sure my P800 allowed me to check calender in FC mode! It will also give an alarm whenever you want prior to the evnt, displaying the appointment on the screen.

[Guest jporch316]

You have won me over Mike !!

Can you get me a symbian ROM for my C500 !!!

This sounds like it would be the match made in heaven

[Guest Pondrew]

20 days standby.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thought the official standby for the P910i was 240hours?

[Guest Tomas Kocanda]

Mike,

I think, your comments are now much more focused as in the first post. But basically, the main thing is, that you dislike the smartphone concept - almost totally open platform for third party developers, who can relativelly easy port their PDA applications to a phone with some PDA functionality. We all know, that for basic tasks like calling and sending SMS are better, cheaper and probably much more reliable devices. But once you want to add your own functionality to suit your need and customise it heavilly, you have two options. You preffer when most of the software is developed and distributed by the OS developer. I like when I can make my own choice and replace it by software, what is better for my need. Typical example - I have MSN Messenger on a PC and replaced it by Trillian. Others replaced ICQ (their own messenger) by Miranda or by Trillian. Not ALL software provided by the manufacturer of the device or service is the best.

We all know, that Microsoft is NOT doing best software and never did. They are best in creating business, they can create totally new market areas or fill the gaps and or jump in the area what they see positive for the future and buy third party software or whole company and bring on the market their application for the particullar market area. Many of bits and pieces of Windows is not original software developed by Microsoft. I´m not specialist in it, but I think that most of the Smartphone software is not original software from Microsoft, but somehow ported or OEM or licenced third party applications. In my phone is at least file manager, memory manager and running application manager, what I purchased two years ago from different company as separate commercial software. You call it now "built in software" but practically it´s also software developed by somebody else and just packed in the phone by somebody else. I would even think that those applications are not integral part of WM2003 distribution for phone vendors, but their independent decision. Some software is good and I would even buy it if it would not be packed in the phone for free. Some need replacement. But it´s exactly the same as any other PC. Or do you use built-in tools when you work with a PC? Somebody perhaps, but most people like better applications for almost everything. Especially professional users - do you know anybody using "built-in" paiting tool in Windows? I had several handheld devices in past, including Psion 3, 5 and Revo. I had old Nokia Communicator and since I tested e100 (HTC Tanager) I switched as it really does, what I need DAILY, every HOUR and sometimes EVERY FEW MINUTES. I don´t remember when I needed last time to send anybody picture by BT or IR (if anytime), but I remember exactly, when I needed information about next meeting on the phone display and next task. I need those things really always. So, I think, it´s clear - this is not right device for you.

P.S. Don´t compare it with Pxxx. Try 900 or 910 for day or two. I would like to know what you will say about it. My friend (big fighter against MS) returned it to his company (got it as company phone) as useless. Battery life less then one day, impossible to operate from keyboard, heavy, big...

[Guest xenophobe]

WINDOWS Smartphone. That is exactly what it is. Just like a PC you buy at the store, it is NOT set up to do everything you want, but provides a solid platform for you to build upon. The C500/5600 does this VERY well. It's small, inexpensive (geez, compare it to the Samsung i600 at $649!!!)

It's not "fully functional out of the box", its "customize to your own desire".

That's what I love about my 5600. Best phone ever, and the price was JUST right. On a side note, I'd love to have a HTC Magician or XDAIIi type device, but they're not so readily available here yet.

[Guest Confused Stu]

Good point Xenophobe! Don't think of the phone out of the box as the finished product, think of it as the starting base.

Well put dude. :lol: