Guest Precognisant Posted January 24, 2003 Report Share Posted January 24, 2003 Waaaay back then in the era of the WAP (?) there was talk of location based alerts i.e an info sms would apear when you went past Buck palace etc etc but I dont think any of the carriers, in the UK, used the cell ID. Does the SPV / Orange now use cell ID and how possible would it be to access this data? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spacemonkey Posted January 24, 2003 Report Share Posted January 24, 2003 The cell info plugin for the homescreen doesn't seem to ever display anything... Not sure if the problem is the plugin or the networks. I remember back in New Zealand it was cool, cos every cell site told you what it was called, so in the limited number of situations where you had no idea what part of Auckland you were in you could just look at your phone (you know the one, when you wake up on a pavement with the sun just rising and wonder where you are ;) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul [MVP] Posted January 24, 2003 Report Share Posted January 24, 2003 Orange doesn't transmit any cell broadcast info. Bit of a shame, cos it would be cool to write an app that used it! The phone actually knows somethign called the LAC (an area code, but not in the same format as an STD code). If you could intercept this, you could have fun. Imagine an app where you update it from the web, and if you happen to stumble into the LAC where another forum user lived, it told you. Cool ;) P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Monolithix [MVP] Posted January 24, 2003 Report Share Posted January 24, 2003 Erm, sounds cool, although don't think i'd be happy at random people banging on my door though yelling "help me de-cert my phone pleeeease" ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lutzh Posted January 24, 2003 Report Share Posted January 24, 2003 hi there, much more interesting would be to have an application like the network monitor (you might remember this from the nokias). why? the network monitor enables you to monitore specific information about wich transmitter you are connected to. what for? well it would be a not so big step to getting this information in to a city map, because you can recalculate the numbers you get in to usable koordinates. this is already realized for pc (check this site: http://www.nobbi.com). this could lead to a somehow useful kind of navigation system (i know, far away from being a replacement for a real navigation system with gps feed). all thats needed (sounds very easy, but it wouldn't be...) is to get a tool, that displays transmitter information, extracts the incoming data, recalculates it to data we can use in a map... ok - challenge. i can't do it but i know its possible. and even if its not usable as a navigation system it will be very smart if you can show people, where the antenna is located that you are connected to. cheers! lutz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Precognisant Posted January 24, 2003 Report Share Posted January 24, 2003 Orange doesn't transmit any cell broadcast info. ...The phone actually knows somethign called the LAC (an area code, but not in the same format as an STD code)... P Is this fixed or dynamic as you travel from area to area and if this is the case would anyone @ Orange (deep doubt) have an 'areacode' map of the UK / London? Oh yeah, where is the LAC? I take it that it is sent with the initial part of the connection and therefore in a very secure part of the phone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest madu Posted January 24, 2003 Report Share Posted January 24, 2003 WOW!!! That would be v. impressive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lutzh Posted January 24, 2003 Report Share Posted January 24, 2003 i don't tink you need an area code map, you can convert that info in to longitude and latitude - and usually every good map program can use this info to tell you where you are!!! cheers, lutz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest madu Posted January 24, 2003 Report Share Posted January 24, 2003 Well if it can easily be converted to longitude and latitude, why do we still have thos expensive and robust GPS devices and not just CityMap Phones?? On the other side, if this can be done - what are we waiting for?? (I know what I am waiting for - for someone to get it working, hehe ;) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lutzh Posted January 24, 2003 Report Share Posted January 24, 2003 well it will never be as good as gps (~5 meters), since you would need at least three different transmitters to be able to calculate your position perfectly. and you are always connected to just one of them... but i am shure that it is possible to realize this! but i am not a coder nor do i have the time for something like this. but there are peolpe out there with the needed skills and maybe this is something i would pay for.... cheers, lutz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Matt Whitfield Posted January 24, 2003 Report Share Posted January 24, 2003 From what I remember about LBS (Location Based Services) when I used to go to WAP Wednesday events (now rebranded Wireless Around People) I think it is more of a network issue than anything. Some people have written software to triangulate your position between base stations (you can get s/w for the Nokia 7650 that does this) but it can be somewhat error prone depending on a number of environmental factors. However the best results (and this is what LBS services would depend on) would be LBS data provided by the networks. I believe there is also a substantial difference in the level of accuracy you can achieve using 2G (GSM), 2.5G (GPRS) and 3G (UMTS). UMTS being the best purely because you need more base stations so I think you end up with much denser cells (much smaller than normal GSM cells) that provide you with a much better level of positioning granularity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jtsaint Posted February 1, 2003 Report Share Posted February 1, 2003 It must be possible to get a cell triangulation for almosy any phone. The police use this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DamianJauregui Posted February 2, 2003 Report Share Posted February 2, 2003 I remember in 2000 talking with Orange [in India] about LBS [Location Based Services] and telling them we could do amazing things for them if we could access their cell site information. It works something like this; 1. A call is made from a handset, this goes to the local cell site. 2. The cell site has a code which is then passed to the network [for routing purposes]. 3. This code can be passed to your application and then resolved [using a cell site code database] to the coordinates of the callers actual cell. 4. Your application can then compare these coordinates to advertisers coordinates [i.e. gas stations, bars, etc.] and let the caller know, via WAP or SMS, about things in their area. Where the ptoblems start is that European telcos [Vodafone, etc.] say that they can not pass on this information to everybody because of caller security, etc. You must be a trusted partner [big bucks required] to access this information, i.e. Yahoo, etc. On older phone networks [i.e. Orange India in 2000] they explained to us that they could not access this code until the call [or WAP connection] was terminated. When the call is terminated the site code is passed in to the billing system and then made available to applications. If you do get the site code, then things get really cool. I spent a long time developing an international "reality" game that would tell you when you are close to a goal, treasure, etc. and also tell you if opposition was in the area and heading for the same thing. We even mapped the story out so that if you got on a plane in the UK and flew to Moscow [for example] then it would help you meet up with other teams with the same goal, etc. and join their game. Pity we never got the access we required... ;)( Damian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Monolithix [MVP] Posted February 2, 2003 Report Share Posted February 2, 2003 That game sounds very cool. It's surprising TV studio#s have not got onto the idea and developed it. Surely they would be able to fund the costs needed to access the information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DamianJauregui Posted February 2, 2003 Report Share Posted February 2, 2003 The simple reason that TV companies, etc. haven't picked up on this is because the decision makers, project managers, etc. in these various companies are hired on a "management skills" basis, rather than real technology skills. Hasn't anyone noticed how the trust with in IT has fallen through the floor in the last 5 years? Our ex-managers from the mid 90's [the ones who would say no because they didn't/wouldn't understand] have progressed in to higher powered general managers now. Now they have the power to vito our every suggestion on the grounds of being unrealistic, un-profitable, etc. End result? Nothing new and exciting. Like the argument about the killer app in 3G. No one thinks that video calls will be massive? Please! This is the star trek dream finally a reality. How many of you can remember being told that the internet was a waste of time and money [1993-1996], SMS was to basic to go anywhere, etc. Damian. [PS Just m y 2 cents worth] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ormstont Posted April 11, 2003 Report Share Posted April 11, 2003 I just thought I'd say that this must be possible (although I have no techie know-how as to how it could be done). With WAP on Orange phones you can go to a railway journey planner site that has the option to start from 'my nearest station'. Click it and hey presto...the nearest railway stations to you pop up! Could this be along the lines of what is needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slider Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 Hmm, this topic's been dead a while, all the info you guys want is available from the R.L.I (Radio Layer Interface) built into the smartphone. The problem is there is no documented API (Or any documentation for that matter). All i've managed to find on the subject is on 'xda-developers.com'. The handset has to have this information so that the Nokia DX200's and other switching gear can track the phone from cell to cell, it's also needed by the handset so it knows when to do a handover. The info IS AVAILABLE all the time, on the phone, we just need to find out how to access it. Any Ideas Anyone? Slider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest notoco Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 Hmmm I woudl really like to have this Ntwork Monitor - but so far it is not available on market .... unfortunetly. Probably for smart programmer it is not a problem to make this, only difficulty is to retrive specific information from SPv phone. I'm affraid Microsoft did not have to plane to publish this info in close future :lol: This information contain looooots of data (including LAC) I'm afraid LAC will be useless for most of u - it is just number assigne to system - there is no name or anything - But each Base station (BS) have specific CellID number, and this together with small programable by user data base could be possible to make it. From mobile point of view "trialangulating" position is practically imposible - coz mobile is connected only to one (BS). And to be able to find mobile u need information from operator point of view. If there is anyone who will have some time to do it, the best example is Nokia monitor! I think this is now the most wanted utilisatin software on the market :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scott2eyes Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 From mobile point of view "trialangulating" position is practically imposible - coz mobile is connected only to one (BS). And to be able to find mobile u need information from operator point of view. Not strictly true- your phone is only connected to one, but it simultaneously monitors the nearest dozen or so, constantly comparing signal strength, available slots etc. ready to handover as and when required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flashflash Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 I see there has been no news on this subject recently, so I thought I would bring it back to the top of the forum to hopefully gain some interest. Any developers out there, a piece or software like nokias network monitor is under great demand here...please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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