Guest Jason Coleman Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 i've tried all other mp4 codecs and i just dont like the blocky look at 120kbps. i cant beleive this topic is still going on. ha ha Well I suspect that is harder to avoid in part because the Dash only has something like a 18 bit color palette. While that's not bad, in things like video that may have lots of gradiation, it'll probably lead to macro blocks being visible if the source was encoded in 24 bit color. It might work out better to drop the video source to a reduced color palette before passing it on to the encoder. The other possibility is modifying the quantization matrix might help, but that's beyond my abilities to do without potentially just screwing the results royally. chaznet: There's one other thing I forgot to mention. Although DivX and Xvid are both mpeg4 pt2 codecs, you can still run into problems playing them back, although often, these problems are a result of the container the video is in, not the encoded data itself. Specifically, AVI has a 4 character code in it, called cleverly enough, the fourcc code(A little redundent since I think the cc in fourcc stands for character code). This code designates what format the video it contains is encoded in. Now, because Xvid and DivX have different fourcc codes, a video encoded in DivX might not play even though you have Xvid installed, and it should in theory be able to handle the decode. But this is because your playback software, based on what the fourcc tells it, doesn't think you have a codec capable of playing the video back. If you were to change the fourcc code to the xvid one, it would likely play fine utilizing xvid to decode the stream created with DivX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chaznet Posted December 15, 2006 Report Share Posted December 15, 2006 Interesting stuff -- I'm just glad the MP4 output with ULEAD VideoStudio Plus works so well on my Dash. I've encoded a bunch of TV stuff and copied it over to watch on flights, in the airport -- and it looks great to me. The picture is clear, sound is good -- no blockiness, skipping or issues as of yet. Well I suspect that is harder to avoid in part because the Dash only has something like a 18 bit color palette. While that's not bad, in things like video that may have lots of gradiation, it'll probably lead to macro blocks being visible if the source was encoded in 24 bit color. It might work out better to drop the video source to a reduced color palette before passing it on to the encoder. The other possibility is modifying the quantization matrix might help, but that's beyond my abilities to do without potentially just screwing the results royally. chaznet: There's one other thing I forgot to mention. Although DivX and Xvid are both mpeg4 pt2 codecs, you can still run into problems playing them back, although often, these problems are a result of the container the video is in, not the encoded data itself. Specifically, AVI has a 4 character code in it, called cleverly enough, the fourcc code(A little redundent since I think the cc in fourcc stands for character code). This code designates what format the video it contains is encoded in. Now, because Xvid and DivX have different fourcc codes, a video encoded in DivX might not play even though you have Xvid installed, and it should in theory be able to handle the decode. But this is because your playback software, based on what the fourcc tells it, doesn't think you have a codec capable of playing the video back. If you were to change the fourcc code to the xvid one, it would likely play fine utilizing xvid to decode the stream created with DivX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jason Coleman Posted December 15, 2006 Report Share Posted December 15, 2006 Ooops. I have to clear up my own error. It looks like the Dash supports 65,000 colors, so that would mean it supports 16 bit color, not 18. Anyway, so what have you encoded? The only thing I've tried so far is the new Halo 3 commercial, and I see banding and macroblocking, but computer generated material can be near worst case for reduced bit depth because of all the graduated shading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chaznet Posted December 16, 2006 Report Share Posted December 16, 2006 I don't think it's a matter of what's being encoded, but what's being used to encode with. Whatever codecs are included with ULEAD, they seem to work well. Ooops. I have to clear up my own error. It looks like the Dash supports 65,000 colors, so that would mean it supports 16 bit color, not 18. Anyway, so what have you encoded? The only thing I've tried so far is the new Halo 3 commercial, and I see banding and macroblocking, but computer generated material can be near worst case for reduced bit depth because of all the graduated shading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jason Coleman Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 I don't think it's a matter of what's being encoded, but what's being used to encode with. Whatever codecs are included with ULEAD, they seem to work well. No, the source material does matter, quite a lot in fact. You've probably even seen it matter in some things, think about a movie or video that has a lot of moving/splashing water in it...you will see macroblocking there if there the bitrate is not high enough. You've probably seen it in some poorly done DVDs, but you know a DVD is capable of excellent visual quality. There is an interaction with the coder though, and some implementations may deal with certain visual scenes better then others. Some things are just easier to encode without visible degradation then others. I haven't been doing multipass encodes, but I suspect, the more I think about it, that a multipass encode may pay off quite a bit more in terms of visual quality on the Dash, then it does on a full resolution encode due to the improved distribution of bits to any given scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chaznet Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 Guess I was lucky to find the Ulead product worked well for me. Don't know if it's multipassing and all that, but with the settings mentioned the action/SciFi stuff I converted looked great -- no blockiness. You're giving this a lot of thought -- personally, I found what I was looking for. No, the source material does matter, quite a lot in fact. You've probably even seen it matter in some things, think about a movie or video that has a lot of moving/splashing water in it...you will see macroblocking there if there the bitrate is not high enough. You've probably seen it in some poorly done DVDs, but you know a DVD is capable of excellent visual quality. There is an interaction with the coder though, and some implementations may deal with certain visual scenes better then others. Some things are just easier to encode without visible degradation then others. I haven't been doing multipass encodes, but I suspect, the more I think about it, that a multipass encode may pay off quite a bit more in terms of visual quality on the Dash, then it does on a full resolution encode due to the improved distribution of bits to any given scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jason Coleman Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 You're giving this a lot of thought -- personally, I found what I was looking for. Nah, not really. I've been encoding video for many years, so I'm reasonably familiar with a lot of it. I've only continued in case someone else gets more into encoding of videos for things other then just a Dash and might want to know more about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alexbo Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 So is there any difference in which player you use on the Dash? The easiest one to get for me was the mobile divx player, but I'd be willing to go to a little extra effort if there is a player that somehow uses less cpu cycles or something. You guys mentioned coreplayer earlier, but I've never heard of that. Is it better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chaznet Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Did you try googling it? Take a look: http://www.coreplayer.com So is there any difference in which player you use on the Dash? The easiest one to get for me was the mobile divx player, but I'd be willing to go to a little extra effort if there is a player that somehow uses less cpu cycles or something. You guys mentioned coreplayer earlier, but I've never heard of that. Is it better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alexbo Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Ya, I found their website. They want me to buy it, of course. I'm just wondering if it is actually noticeably smoother than the free mobile divx player? Also, I am interested in using my Dash as my organizer. Is there a good calendar/organizer program out there? Anything significantly better than the stock calenday program? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chaznet Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 (edited) Ya, I found their website. They want me to buy it, of course. I'm just wondering if it is actually noticeably smoother than the free mobile divx player?I like it. It plays DIVX and a whole lot more. Their forums are quite active, you might want to browse them and post specific questions there. Not sure which free mobile divx player you're referring to, but CorePlayer just plays the video normally, from start to finish -- without issue... Also, I am interested in using my Dash as my organizer. Is there a good calendar/organizer program out there? Anything significantly better than the stock calenday program?Papyrus is great, even better with Facade -- both from SBSH.net. There are others, I've tried them all -- but I prefer the SBSH products. They also have an active forum at their site, you'll get more comprehensive info there -- they offer trial versions. Edited January 14, 2007 by chaznet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alexbo Posted January 15, 2007 Report Share Posted January 15, 2007 I like it. It plays DIVX and a whole lot more. Their forums are quite active, you might want to browse them and post specific questions there. Not sure which free mobile divx player you're referring to, but CorePlayer just plays the video normally, from start to finish -- without issue... Papyrus is great, even better with Facade -- both from SBSH.net. There are others, I've tried them all -- but I prefer the SBSH products. They also have an active forum at their site, you'll get more comprehensive info there -- they offer trial versions. Awesome thanks. That's exactly what I was looking for. So that covers video and organization... What's the best choice for music? I'm already pissed at windows media player mobile --it only displays the name of the song in the song lists, so I can't tell which artist I'm looking at. Also, have you been deleting the windows equivalents (like windows calendar when you install papyrus?) in order to free up space? How do I go about that? Are there any other must-do changes that you recommend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alexbo Posted January 15, 2007 Report Share Posted January 15, 2007 (edited) BTW I've been playing with video compressors all day and the one that I've found to be the best so far is the AVS video converter set to MP4 mode, not AVI (avi set to use xvid one-pass). AVI was good too though... I had been using the Divx player you can download from mobile.divx.com (as in, from THE divx company), but this coreplayer is much better. I little less flashy, but it can handle more audio types. Edited January 15, 2007 by Alexbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chaznet Posted January 15, 2007 Report Share Posted January 15, 2007 (edited) Good luck with your multimedia stuff. Answers to the questions not related to Dash video encoding are covered extensively througout MoDaCo -- try out the search feature, it works well. Seeya... Awesome thanks. That's exactly what I was looking for. So that covers video and organization... What's the best choice for music? I'm already pissed at windows media player mobile --it only displays the name of the song in the song lists, so I can't tell which artist I'm looking at. Also, have you been deleting the windows equivalents (like windows calendar when you install papyrus?) in order to free up space? How do I go about that? Are there any other must-do changes that you recommend? Edited January 15, 2007 by chaznet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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