Naughty naughty Orange...

[Guest jbrare]

Evening all,

I went into an Orange shop today in Leeds, white rose centre and spoke to a lady called Jenny (a phone trainer). What I wanted was to just check out what they had before finally making my mind up to leave Orange or not, one last chance sort of thing - brain still refusing to acknowledge how SH*TE they have become as a company!!

Anyway, she explained I was on band three so the prices of phones would be ...... (varied from phone to phone). The clanger was dropped when I asked about 12 month contracts with my existing plan or one of them stupid zoo tariffs, she said Orange NO LONGER DO 12 MONTH CONTRACTS!!!! But she could do me 10% off my line rental for 6 months!!!!!! I said "I was offered a 12 month contract from Orange not more than 2 weeks ago when they called me!" she said "No sorry we don't do them, nor do the other networks...". I politely told her the other networks DO PLENTY of 12 month contracts as do Orange. This was met with a blank expression so I decided no business could be done with her.

My god, what the hell was she talking about!!! Oh yes I know COMMISION!!!!! Mis-selling a contract didn't seem to make any difference, shorly the customer should be made aware of ALL contract options!!

I have spoken to Orange on the phone who assured me they DO offer 12 month contracts and the shop was nothing to do with them (sounds of tap running as he washed his hands of the matter!)

The shop was a fully branded Orange shop with staff in Orange brand uniforms, I thought these shops were part of Orange and not a franchise as such???!!!???

Words just escape me how bad they are becoming, for gods sake Orange, if you read these forums, PLEASE listen to your customers/staff - STOP THE ZOO, CHANGE YOUR COMMISION POLICY, BEAT THE OTHER NETWORKS ON QUALITY AND VALUE!!

sorry for the rant, thanks for listening!

JB

[Guest Monolithix (MVP)]

1 - It's not commission related, its targets.

2 - Orange PCS (who you spoke to on the phone) and Orange Retail are technically 2 different companies (they're just both owned by France Telecom). A grey area yes, but ultimately they are separate entities.

[Guest pd.ryder]

Rant on my friend...

I must be getting cynical in my old age because this doesn't surprise me one little bit. I'm sure the lady concerned was acting in her own best interests and the 'mis-selling' had little to do with Orange directly. If this is the only way she could make a decent few quid then expect more to follow suit.

Orange must make it clear to their staff that selling contracts in this vain is inappropriate at best and illegal at worst.

[Guest Tech]

let me add this:

another new low from orange - what a surprise

here in town there is an orange shop and in the last 2 weeks ive noticed the shop not being full of customers, now infact its only 3 people everytime i walk past it, everyday!!

no network does 12 month contract? bull! I just got my new MDA Vario tmobile contract which was a 12 month contract, and had this signed up to 2 weeks ago because I was leaving orange early.

O2 do 12 month contracts, I have one of their contracts since november and my family has alot of O2 contracts! (dad, relatives/uncles/aunts)

no 12 month contract? no way!!!

it would be against the law if there were no 12 month contracts anymore as having a customer sign up to something for more than a standard 12 month would be... well, not good and forcing customers to fall into alot of traps and being unhappy.

[Guest sporkguy]

to quote myself from the 9th of April...

Agreed - I personally would do pretty much anything I could for a customer, including suggesting they stay on PAYG, try another network - or even keep their existing phone for another few months. Alas, not all of the PTs at my branch were the same.

I think the thing about sales is its a very aggressive marketplace, if one PT is behind on his targets, he's going to do literally anything to achieve so that he keeps the manager off his back. I was naturally good at selling, so I was never behind, hence why I could offer impartiality to my customers, as well as take the full brunt of customers complaining from Orange-related issues.

One certain PT who worked for us and left just after xmas, when the 18 month option on upgrades was released, and Orange cut the CC on normal 12 mth handset upgrades this guy took it upon himself to automatically upgrade customers to 18 month connections without even telling them. They signed the paperwork and left the shop with their new phone.

I'd be interested to see what happens in 10-12 months when they come in for their yearly upgrade, only to discover a ?150 upgrade fee. Glad I'm not there anymore lol.

CC being Customer Contribution, i.e. what we get paid on each sale. -- by cutting the CC on the less important things, Orange seemed to be encouraging stores like my own to refuse 12 month upgrades, just to meet our CC targets.

It was a hard life I tell you - I remember the days when you would get very similar CC for an upgrade as you would a new connection - impartiality and good customer service was to be expected back then.

[Guest jbrare]

This is mainly for Sporkguy,

If Orange (the shop version) is different to Orange (who you call on 150 etc), how come they are permitted to brand themselves as the same when they aren't with no notice saying they are a franchise and as such only an authorized dealer for Orange? This really confuses the customers as we think we are buying direct from Orange but from the shop, which I prefer doing. Face to face in a shop the old fashioned way. Also if I wanted to complain about the service (or mis-selling) who do I complain to, is it the shop manager or Orange on 150?

Are the shops ultimately under the control of Orange?

Cheers Sporkguy - I felt like I really wanted to shout at her in the Orange shop because It was such a blatant lie, life is too short however.

JB

[Guest Monolithix (MVP)]

It because, as i said above, they're both owned by FT, who ultimately own the Orange branding trade marks.

When O Broadband (eg wanadoo) is launched later this year it'll be Orange branded in exactly the same way, but a separate entity to O Retail and O PCS. However if you have a problem with your phone or network service, i wouldn't expect O Broadband CS to be able to help you resolve it...

[Guest Wildfire]

It because, as i said above, they're both owned by FT, who ultimately own the Orange branding trade marks.

When O Broadband (eg wanadoo) is launched later this year it'll be Orange branded in exactly the same way, but a separate entity to O Retail and O PCS. However if you have a problem with your phone or network service, i wouldn't expect O Broadband CS to be able to help you resolve it...

You and many people who post on these boards know and understand the whole concept of the different entities.

Joe public sees one thing.....the orange Logo, as far as they are concerned it is all the same company, and to try and tell them differently/explain the whole cost centre thing is just a wasted effort, they think you are trying to pull a fast one.

[Guest Tech]

i agree with the original poster - this does not surprise me 1 bit

typical

[Guest Monolithix (MVP)]

You and many people who post on these boards know and understand the whole concept of the different entities.

Joe public sees one thing.....the orange Logo, as far as they are concerned it is all the same company, and to try and tell them differently/explain the whole cost centre thing is just a wasted effort, they think you are trying to pull a fast one.

I absolutely agree :)

[Guest pinky123]

Evening all,

I went into an Orange shop today in Leeds, white rose centre and spoke to a lady called Jenny (a phone trainer). What I wanted was to just check out what they had before finally making my mind up to leave Orange or not, one last chance sort of thing - brain still refusing to acknowledge how SH*TE they have become as a company!!

Anyway, she explained I was on band three so the prices of phones would be ...... (varied from phone to phone). The clanger was dropped when I asked about 12 month contracts with my existing plan or one of them stupid zoo tariffs, she said Orange NO LONGER DO 12 MONTH CONTRACTS!!!! But she could do me 10% off my line rental for 6 months!!!!!! I said "I was offered a 12 month contract from Orange not more than 2 weeks ago when they called me!" she said "No sorry we don't do them, nor do the other networks...". I politely told her the other networks DO PLENTY of 12 month contracts as do Orange. This was met with a blank expression so I decided no business could be done with her.

My god, what the hell was she talking about!!! Oh yes I know COMMISION!!!!! Mis-selling a contract didn't seem to make any difference, shorly the customer should be made aware of ALL contract options!!

I have spoken to Orange on the phone who assured me they DO offer 12 month contracts and the shop was nothing to do with them (sounds of tap running as he washed his hands of the matter!)

The shop was a fully branded Orange shop with staff in Orange brand uniforms, I thought these shops were part of Orange and not a franchise as such???!!!???

Words just escape me how bad they are becoming, for gods sake Orange, if you read these forums, PLEASE listen to your customers/staff - STOP THE ZOO, CHANGE YOUR COMMISION POLICY, BEAT THE OTHER NETWORKS ON QUALITY AND VALUE!!

sorry for the rant, thanks for listening!

JB

That is bizzare!!! Though direct upgardes you can still get a upgrade and be on a 12 month contract. Yes i agree she was speaking out of her rear end. I will keep not swearing as i think its a bit rude.

As far as i am aware the orange shops are a franchise and not strickly speaking us.

Live long and prosper

[Guest Tech]

interesting for someone who loves orange alot to say that one of it's employees is "speaking out of her rear end"

rude isnt it?

[Guest pinky123]

interesting for someone who loves orange alot to say that one of it's employees is "speaking out of her rear end"

rude isnt it?

I agree, but if she is wrong why not say it. Does not help the customer if she/he is given conflicting info does it?

P.s have i done something to personaly upset you tech? As you seem to have a vendetta against me or is it just Orange?

[Guest Tech]

well it was your approach initially which really did not only tick myself off, but im sure majority of users.

The fact that you said that we are pretty much not worth having and that we know nothing, and that we are rubbish customers did tick me off alot personally as I spend ALOT of money - I dont have money to burn like perhaps you do - I work HARD for money but also ENJOY the job I do and take on criticism and improve upon it in a professional manner.

Sure, me and sporky perhaps got on the wrong foot at the start but I forgave him or really should I say that we had a misunderstanding but I worked it out myself and now would like to be considered as buddies even though he worked for orange however he did agree with us about the service and so on - this is what I personally call "thinking out of the box" regardless if you are an employee of that company or not but taking in feedback/input from their customers - at the end of the day we do pay your wages or whatever.

Saying such things to us or myself is really, terrible I'm afraid. On a Personal POV I spent alot of money on orange and then you come out and say these horrible things that our money is no good...blah blah.

Sure, your customers, or ex-customers, have been "mean" but the whole point is to take it in, improve upon it, and deal with it professionally. Take our suggestions, see some sense and act upon it.

Compare the price plans from LAST year to after this april 1st. compared, last year we got MORE for LESS but this time it's the opposite.

sorry for rambling on and mis leading this thread but some things need to be said.

dont worry, no more replies from me for this thread - I do apologize to the original poster.

Have a great night!

[Guest spacerace]

In 'their' defence... there is a difference between New Customers and Upgrade Customers.

New customers on many networks can still get 12month contracts, although there are better deals with the 18month contracts. However for upgrades / RENEWing a contract - the networks are getting tighter.

I recently renewed a Vodafone and Orange contracts and was told by both companies (dealing directly with Orange Retail and Vodafone Retail on their respective handset direct dial numbers) that if I renewed it HAD to be on an 18 month contract... Neither company would let me renew for 12 months - I don't have an O2 or T-Mobile contract so can't speak for their policies, but just to say it isn't ONLY Orange pushing this tactic (sorry "policy" !)

[Guest jbrare]

In 'their' defence... there is a difference between New Customers and Upgrade Customers.

New customers on many networks can still get 12month contracts, although there are better deals with the 18month contracts. However for upgrades / RENEWing a contract - the networks are getting tighter.

I recently renewed a Vodafone and Orange contracts and was told by both companies (dealing directly with Orange Retail and Vodafone Retail on their respective handset direct dial numbers) that if I renewed it HAD to be on an 18 month contract... Neither company would let me renew for 12 months - I don't have an O2 or T-Mobile contract so can't speak for their policies, but just to say it isn't ONLY Orange pushing this tactic (sorry "policy" !)

For gods sake, what is wrong with these people who run Orange / Vodafone (don't know about O2). NOT ALL CUSTOMERS want an 18 month contract! I don't want "pay as you go" and I don't expect all the "extras" of an 18 month contract either. I just want a FAIR 12 month contract with an upgrade without being mis-sold an 18 month contract. I don't care who owns what franchise or who sells direct, thats all irrelevant to me. Sell me a product I want to buy! Most (but not all) people who sign these 18 month contracts are blinded by a new shiny phone at the time. 8-9 months down the line most (but by no means all) will be bored of there phone / network and will be looking forward to an upgrade soon. Sorry guys, will be the answer from the network. Your on an 18 month contract, you can't upgrade for another 7-8 months. Cancelling the contract could be costly too. 12 months is long enough to be tied to a contract, especially within the telecoms industry. Orange went from outstanding to very poor in around 12 - 18 months.

This is all academic anyway, as i'm with T-Mobile now. Very happy so far, "12 month contract...no problem sir, what tariff would you like? Of course you can have unlimited data access sir."

Web 'n' Walk. Not rocket science, but it's what customers want and I don't get branded with an animal tariff!

JB

[Guest confucious]

But the FlexT tarrifs are 18 month only :)

But with 25% off I signed up for 18 months anyway ?32 / month for all my data, texts and voice - that will do nicely sir!

[Guest jbrare]

But the FlexT tarrifs are 18 month only :)

But with 25% off I signed up for 18 months anyway ?32 / month for all my data, texts and voice - that will do nicely sir!

I'm on relax 25 (?25 p/month with 150 mins 500 txts and 5 mms) and web 'n' walk unlimited (?7.50) on a 12 month contract. Bought in a T-Mobile shop in Leeds. Can't fault it.

Orange signal was better though as was their 3G signal. Also as posted elsewhere the Orange shops are looking VERY empty these days as is Vodafone. O2 seems fairly busy and T-Mobile are VERY busy.

JB

[Guest confucious]

So I'm paying a bit less than you (It's actually ?31.88 as opposed to your ?32.50) but I get ?180 worth of credit which I can split as I like - so up to 900 mins or MMS or 1800 texts or any combination of the 3 - But I am tied in to 18 Months - sold the Compact II and CoPilot for ?270 as I already had an Exec with CoPilot.

Like you say )2 have some good offers but Orange and Vodaphone are suffering.

[Guest Monolithix (MVP)]

The mobile phone market is mental for competition. O/Voda/Tmob/etc are all well aware customers don't want 18 month contracts, but they have to make money somehow! Customers want a top of the range phone for free, with 1000 mins and unlimited sms+data for ?25 a month, and as (some) have realised, the sums don't balance, _unless_ you take into consideration 18 month contracts.

[Guest jbrare]

The mobile phone market is mental for competition. O/Voda/Tmob/etc are all well aware customers don't want 18 month contracts, but they have to make money somehow! Customers want a top of the range phone for free, with 1000 mins and unlimited sms+data for ?25 a month, and as (some) have realised, the sums don't balance, _unless_ you take into consideration 18 month contracts.

Agreed, but the choice (even in the franchised shops) should be available. As I said before, I don't expect unrealistic price plans for my 12 months so long as it's fair. I don't even mind contributing a fair share of the phone price either. This option was taken away from me by Orange unless I accepted an 18 month contract. "No" business seems to be preferable to "some" business as far as Orange is concerned. Shame really, I liked the network.

JB

[Guest Monolithix (MVP)]

Yep absolutely. Unfortunately you're in the minority, as i said above, the majority of people want the latest phones for no cost. The networks have responded, Orange and the rest, by introducing 18 month contracts. Higher commission and difficult targets have resulted in retailers pushing for the longer contracts.

Surely you must know that as a consumer, in electronic equipment in particular, you are told what you want, rather than requesting it *cough*HDTV*cough*? :)

[Guest sporkguy]

Yep - they pretty much made it impossible for us to sell consumers 12 month contracts, as we'd earn literally nothing for a handset upgrade on 12mo - I'd rather be spending my time connecting a clearance PAYG handset which paid a hell of a lot more than a standard 12mo upgrade.