one word to complainers

[Guest nothin]

Hello.

I am writing this because of many posts about emulators, where people are saying - it is slow, its buggy, its' sound is poor, it is stuttering.

Truth is, that ppc's(and lol...sMARTPHONES of ocurse) aren't best method for using emulators.

I am rofl'ing when somebody is complaining about emulators performance.

phone pocketpcs and smartphones are VERY weak machines, year 2003-2004 was good eon of quite powerful mobile computers=ppc's - asus 620bt, ipaq 1940, and few more qvga devices were able to emulate many machines,

then trend made machines to be smaller, weaker, just shitty pseudo computers - aka smartphones, and OMAP driven machines, like wizard.

Truth is, that 300 mhz xscale machine is far better than 95% of that new, sad omap devices, or smartphones. Of course, usually there is no phone - but emulation doesn't need phone.

There's no method to make weak machine better or equal of 520 mhz xscale processor, just forget it.

Wizard has 195 mhz OMAP. that cpu is equal to...150 mhz xscale, or even less..

300 mhz xscale is able to run with 400(rare-472 mhz)mhz when oc'ed.

400 mhz is quite enough to emulate snes with 44 khz, 16 bit stereo sound with fluid gameplay(or nosound and mp3 in background while playing).

machine with 400 mhz xscale cpu, and wm03 system is worthy... let's say 80 euros?

So stop saying, that your smartphones arent able to run GBA ffs, or snes sound is choppy.

Know your enemy.

These sad, trendy devices.

forgive me, that i wrote that post, just cant stand complains about emus, that are masterpieces, just masterpieces, imagine lack of stupid mathematic coprocessor or gfx card in pps/smartphones...just be real, dudes.

It cant be much better...

Your choice do.

To get real sight try to emulate atari xl, or Amiga computers... you will see how sad modern, trendy devices are novadays....

Mikeeeeey, help me to make them conscious...geez.

Edited June 2, 2007 by nothin

[Guest dario69]

Know your enemy.

These sad, trendy devices.

That one says it all. This is coming from someone who started on the PalmPCs back in 1998. I went from slow black and white to fast color, back to slow. Surprised we don't start seeing the non-color screens again since battery conservation is the new mantra with pda's and smartphones.

Of course, the compromise on speed versus battery power is quite obvious. My old XDA and i730 cannot hold a candle to these OMAP phones. And if you overclock the OMAP to 240-252 mhz the speed of these emu's are quite good.

My beef nowadays are the PDAs that cannot handle diagonals and multiple button presses. The fact that the Dash and Wing rock as far as directional pads and registered button presses are concerned makes me quite happy. Fast emu's would be a plus but just like you said, these things were never meant to be replacements for your Nintendo DS or Sony PSP. If things work for you then consider yourself lucky.

[Guest mikeeey]

lol thankyou for this information it really did help me compare different processor speeds with others. i admit in posts about emulators i will say it's slow for me but i will say on my Omap 200mhz Oc'd to 252mhz. i understand my processor is slow (and im waiting for the kaiser so it will do everything lol) but i do bare with what i have and dont complain when i try to run a gba emulator at full framerate and audio lol.

btw im curious what a 252mhz Omap is equal to as far as the 400mhz samsung processors.

is a 400mhz samsung faster than a 400mhz Xscale? no matter, the kaiser has a graphics accelerator thats faster than the Dell Axim's 624mhz Xscale + Intel 2700 graphics accelerator.

[Guest dijital]

lol thankyou for this information it really did help me compare different processor speeds with others. i admit in posts about emulators i will say it's slow for me but i will say on my Omap 200mhz Oc'd to 252mhz. i understand my processor is slow (and im waiting for the kaiser so it will do everything lol) but i do bare with what i have and dont complain when i try to run a gba emulator at full framerate and audio lol.

btw im curious what a 252mhz Omap is equal to as far as the 400mhz samsung processors.

is a 400mhz samsung faster than a 400mhz Xscale? no matter, the kaiser has a graphics accelerator thats faster than the Dell Axim's 624mhz Xscale + Intel 2700 graphics accelerator.

400mhz samsung processor would be about the same spped as a xscale 520mhz processor, it can be on par with a xscale at 560-590mhz if good memory & memory controller is used.

Edited June 3, 2007 by dijital

[Guest nothin]

400mhz samsung processor would be about the same spped as a xscale 520mhz processor, it can be on par with a xscale at 560-590mhz if good memory & memory controller is used.

wow thx 4 info.

[Guest mikeeey]

400mhz samsung processor would be about the same spped as a xscale 520mhz processor, it can be on par with a xscale at 560-590mhz if good memory & memory controller is used.

wow really? i think the kaiser will be faster than the Dell Axim's Xscale 624mhz processor then.

[Guest dijital]

you need to remeber that the dell axim x50/x51 used a very fast memory controller and high speed memory too, it also had one of the best video controllers available for a pocket pc aswell.

ppc's / smartphones are like desktop pc's, you can have a fast cpu, but if the memory/video card cant keep up with it, the fast cpu is useless, so i guess we will have to wait for a review of the kaiser before we can really tell how fast it is.

[Guest nothin]

one more thing: VGA devices are MUCH SLOWER in emus... down to 1/4 of power in worst case...

gfx subsystem isn't that important.

Edited June 3, 2007 by nothin

[Guest dijital]

deleted.

Edited June 3, 2007 by dijital

[Guest nothin]

deleted.

oh, why? i am curious, what You intended to say...

VGA is problem with emulation, and plz, i do not want to start a war..

that topic is because disonance between masterful coding by emu writers and machine possibilities...

Weak machine = weak emulation, bugreports are something different....

sorry dijital, if topic is not ok...

Edited June 3, 2007 by nothin

[Guest mikeeey]

you need to remeber that the dell axim x50/x51 used a very fast memory controller and high speed memory too, it also had one of the best video controllers available for a pocket pc aswell.

ppc's / smartphones are like desktop pc's, you can have a fast cpu, but if the memory/video card cant keep up with it, the fast cpu is useless, so i guess we will have to wait for a review of the kaiser before we can really tell how fast it is.

well just from the specs i was seeing, the Dell's graphics accelerator supports up to 831,000 triangle 3D pixels per second, and up to 84 million pixels per second fill rate. and the Kaiser's Graphics accelerator supports up to 4 million trianngle 3D pixels per second, and 133 million pixels per second fill rate.

plus i did not know that VGA makes emulation slow so, since the Kaiser is just QVGA that means it will be ever faster =). i know il be playing PS1 and GBA on mine when i get it.

[Guest dijital]

oh, why? i am curious, what You intended to say...

VGA is problem with emulation, and plz, i do not want to start a war..

that topic is because disonance between masterful coding by emu writers and machine possibilities...

Weak machine = weak emulation, bugreports are something different....

sorry dijital, if topic is not ok...

lol the topic is fine, as long as it is not aimed at me :rolleyes:

It was nothing, was just gonna say that with some gfx chips they allow writing directly to the screen bypassing the cpu, in these cases whe gfx chip offloads allot from the cpu, when am emulatore takes advantage of this (there is a version of poecket snes and some GBA emu, cant remember which one) it can boost the emulation speed by up to 30%, unfortunatley gfx chips go largely ignored in the ppc/smartphone emulation world.

Edited June 3, 2007 by dijital

[Guest dijital]

well just from the specs i was seeing, the Dell's graphics accelerator supports up to 831,000 triangle 3D pixels per second, and up to 84 million pixels per second fill rate. and the Kaiser's Graphics accelerator supports up to 4 million trianngle 3D pixels per second, and 133 million pixels per second fill rate.

plus i did not know that VGA makes emulation slow so, since the Kaiser is just QVGA that means it will be ever faster =). i know il be playing PS1 and GBA on mine when i get it.

unfortunatley just because a device has 3d accelerator in it doesnt mean there will be many games / emus that support it, there has been about 4 games made for the accelerator in the axim, 2 of them were crap :rolleyes: also i doubt the ps1 emulator (fpsece) will be able to take full advantage of the kaisers 3d card, it just about supports the axims 3d card.

On top of that, dont depend on a 3d card in your ppc to actually make it significantley faster with fpsece, have a looK at my youtube vid of when i compared my overclocked ppc's again each other using the latest version of fpsece. I compared my dell axim x50v overclocked to around 720mhz and my OLD xda2 clocked at 578mhz, both were clocked to utilise the maximum memory badwidth possible between the cpu and ram.

be sure to read the notes on the right

CLICK HERE TO SEE THE VID

[Guest mikeeey]

unfortunatley just because a device has 3d accelerator in it doesnt mean there will be many games / emus that support it, there has been about 4 games made for the accelerator in the axim, 2 of them were crap :rolleyes: also i doubt the ps1 emulator (fpsece) will be able to take full advantage of the kaisers 3d card, it just about supports the axims 3d card.

On top of that, dont depend on a 3d card in your ppc to actually make it significantley faster with fpsece, have a looK at my youtube vid of when i compared my overclocked ppc's again each other using the latest version of fpsece. I compared my dell axim x50v overclocked to around 720mhz and my OLD xda2 clocked at 578mhz, both were clocked to utilise the maximum memory badwidth possible between the cpu and ram.

be sure to read the notes on the right

CLICK HERE TO SEE THE VID

well on youtube it was sort of hard to see the speeds of the 2 but i did notice that at the end that one was further ahead of the other.

and i was not aware the emulator had to support the 3d accelerator. i thought that if it could display up to a number of pixels per second then it would do that, i didnt think the program would limit it's pixels per second.

the herems had a graphics accelerator. it wasnt as good as this one but it had one. nothing that i know of supported it but everyone would say the hermes is a really fast phone. i think it was the accelerator that it was using that was making it fast, therefor everything supported it. just the way it sounds, it sounds like it automaticly accelerates it, rather than how the dell ppcs's graphics chip had to be supported.

that was confusing to explain so i hope that makes sense lol.

in other words, it seems that the chip the hermes and kaiser uses is automatic and always in use.

[Guest dijital]

The framrate on both pda's was near identical all the way through

Actually the video system in the hermes was not very good ( ati imageon 3200 2d only, this is a VERY common gfx system for pocket pc's, it was in most othermain stream ppc's ), that actual gfx chip was ok, but it only had about 128k ram, which made it useless for allmost everything apart from rendering a webpage.

[Guest mikeeey]

The framrate on both pda's was near identical all the way through

Actually the video system in the hermes was not very good ( ati imageon 3200 2d only, this is a VERY common gfx system for pocket pc's, it was in most othermain stream ppc's ), that actual gfx chip was ok, but it only had about 128k ram, which made it useless for allmost everything apart from rendering a webpage.

according to pdadb, the hermes uses a Qualcomm MSM6275 graphics chip, while the kaiser uses a Qualcomm MSM7200 graphics chip.

well wel just have to see when some sort of review comes out, but my guess was they put a nice fast graphics chip in the kaiser for a reason, dont you think?

[Guest dijital]

according to pdadb, the hermes uses a Qualcomm MSM6275 graphics chip

hang on, i was thinking of a different pda :rolleyes:

[Guest genaldar]

The reason that smartphones and ppcs are now all about battery life is because of the phone feature. My wing has to always be on to a degree to accept calls. True ppcs can actually go into a full standby because they don't have to accept an incoming call.

When I bought my wing I seriously thought about sticking with my sda and picking up a used axim. But like everyone else I don't want to carry 2 devices. If I did I wouldn't bother with an axim, I'd bring my ds lite.

Edited June 5, 2007 by genaldar

[Guest Dinth]

I am writing this because of many posts about emulators, where people are saying - it is slow, its buggy, its' sound is poor, it is stuttering.

Truth is, that ppc's(and lol...sMARTPHONES of ocurse) aren't best method for using emulators.

Of course they aren't. But PPC arent best for using emulators mainly because low comfort of playing (portait displays, buttons only under one hand in landscape, not recognizing pressing more buttons at once)/

I am rofl'ing when somebody is complaining about emulators performance.

I have standard PDA (without phone) and im also complaing about emulators preformance. And i don't think that is because slow processors, lack of comprocessors and gfx chip. That is mainly because lack of good coders which want to make something good for community.

Masterall showed that it is posible to emulate 68000 with excellent speed on PDA. What with many other good but even older machines working on this processor?

Now on my XScale 400MHz i can play Finalburn with full speed and 44kHz audio, but A600 (afair A600 also worked on even slower 68000 and without Z80. of course it had ECS) emulator is working with same speed or ?even slightly slower? than on my old 200MHz strongarm.

[Guest mikeeey]

Of course they aren't. But PPC arent best for using emulators mainly because low comfort of playing (portait displays, buttons only under one hand in landscape, not recognizing pressing more buttons at once)/

I have standard PDA (without phone) and im also complaing about emulators preformance. And i don't think that is because slow processors, lack of comprocessors and gfx chip. That is mainly because lack of good coders which want to make something good for community.

Masterall showed that it is posible to emulate 68000 with excellent speed on PDA. What with many other good but even older machines working on this processor?

Now on my XScale 400MHz i can play Finalburn with full speed and 44kHz audio, but A600 (afair A600 also worked on even slower 68000 and without Z80. of course it had ECS) emulator is working with same speed or ?even slightly slower? than on my old 200MHz strongarm.

yes that sounds about right. i completely agree with you. thing is, here on modaco, almost every emulator is coded by masterall and people are complaining. the code is already good, what is needed is a faster device. i am quite happy with the emulators i can play on my phone. i do wish for a faster pocket pc tho. i cant wait to see the kaiser's peformance on masterall's emulators. im sure they'l run full speed/framerate with the highest sound quality.

[Guest yoasminn]

Of course they aren't. But PPC arent best for using emulators mainly because low comfort of playing (portait displays, buttons only under one hand in landscape, not recognizing pressing more buttons at once)/

I have standard PDA (without phone) and im also complaing about emulators preformance. And i don't think that is because slow processors, lack of comprocessors and gfx chip. That is mainly because lack of good coders which want to make something good for community.

Masterall showed that it is posible to emulate 68000 with excellent speed on PDA. What with many other good but even older machines working on this processor?

Now on my XScale 400MHz i can play Finalburn with full speed and 44kHz audio, but A600 (afair A600 also worked on even slower 68000 and without Z80. of course it had ECS) emulator is working with same speed or ?even slightly slower? than on my old 200MHz strongarm.

Not really true, I have a Pocket Loox 720 Pocket PC (vga screen) and I find it perfect for emulation. It does take into account multiple buttons pressed (I had to install a software called buttonhold switcher for loox 720 because by default it wasn't possible), and I find it really comfortable to use in landscape mode (directional pad on the left and virtual buttons on the right). Of course if the buttons are virtual they cannot be pressed simultaneously, though. But then I can still use my buttons on the left for this task if I really need it. Perfect for RPG, Genesis and Finalburn are really fast with sound, Supernes too, although some particular games are slow (and funilly not the most recent ones)

Of course it's a high end pocket PC, even if it has no graphical acceleration, so it's quite logical that it's good with emulation. I had an HP Ipaq with xga screen before, 300 mhz I think, All it could do (with playable framerates) was genesis without sound, nes, gameboy and gamegear...

On my Pocket Loox I don't emulate PSX nor gameboy advance (the latter works quite well but without sound and I like games with music, PSX was just too slow and I gave up, but I wasn't surprised making comparison with a desktop computer and the type of CPU it needs... I guess if people want 3d gaming they should buy a PSP, but there are tons of excellent 2D games. In fact 3D to my opinion is beautiful, but often less creative)

I agree there are not enough people involved in emulation such as there would be in the PSP community (but those who are do really really great work, thumbs up to masterall) and for example I am a bit surprised everybody tried to make Supernes emulators based on Snes9x. I remember in the old days when my desktop was a K6 II 400, Snes9x wasn't running perfectly on my machine, 400 mhz was too slow, I had some sound issues. I was using another emulator which is also open source, called Zsnes, incredibly much faster. And that was a desktop 400 mhz with ATI graphics card, not a pocket PC... I only switched to Snes9X when they released the OpenGL port, because then it became fast and fancy looking. But in the PPC community, only those whith a Dell Axim can have OpenGL in Snes9X, and therefore good speeds...