Guest Alex (nedge2k) Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 Roaming around the web as I do, I came across quite a startling post over on PocketGPSWorld:This is sure to cause a stir. A German court has ruled that a navigation application running on a Smartphone cannot be used whilst driving. Because the use of phones whilst driving is illegal, a court in Cologne has ruled that drivers using a satellite navigation system installed on a phone are infringing Section 23, Paragraph 1 of the German Highway Code. The full text can be read here (in German) and here translated although you should be aware that Google's translator misinterprets the German for driving as 'tax' because the German for 'steering wheel' and 'tax' are the same. Is this just a case of German efficiency, or could the UK soon fall foul? Here's hoping our legal system doesn't take the law about operating a phone whilst driving too literally... [Source] EDIT: My other half just pointed out that if you took the sim out, it wouldn't technically be a phone...good thinking batman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul (MVP) Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 Well, it would still technically be a phone, albeit one you're not USING as a phone :D P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alex (nedge2k) Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 No sim = not able to be used as a phone = not a phone :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul (MVP) Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 That's like saying car without steering wheel = not a car :D P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alex (nedge2k) Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 no, it's like saying a car without an engine is not a car...which it wouldn't be :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul (MVP) Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 Surely it's more like a car without an ecu is not a car, which is still incorrect :D No wait, that's not right, that's more like the processor... P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alex (nedge2k) Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 no, a car without an ecu is like a device without a cpu :D don't make me start a poll on this!! :D EDIT: bah, don't edit ur posts after the fact! :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul (MVP) Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 Can't figure out car equivalent of SIM! Help people! :D P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mysterious Stranger Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 no, it's like saying a car without an engine is not a car...which it wouldn't be :D Nope, according to the law, it is still a car. Someone was convicted of drink driving sitting in a knackered banger up on bricks with no engine in 2003. Just because I removed the TV tuner board from a load of 42" plasmas for a client's presentation we still had to get a TV licence - I checked with the manufacturer who confirmed with TV licensing etc etc. Not using a function on something designed for that purpose does not absolve you of the legal responsibilty conferred from having it. M.S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mysterious Stranger Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 Can't figure out car equivalent of SIM! Help people! :D P Registration plate? You sim identifies you to the network - your number plate identifies you to the Police etc. You can make calls without a sim. Only to emergency numbers. You could drive a car without a number plate showing but only if you really needed to etc etc. M.S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul (MVP) Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 Good point, a car without a reg plate is STILL a car! :D P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alex (nedge2k) Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul (MVP) Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alex (nedge2k) Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 er... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul (MVP) Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 FAIL! Didn't you see I made the effort to ensure my picture matched yours at 300 pixels wide? :D P (it's an illness!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alex (nedge2k) Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 lmao. you need help mate :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zehlein Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 lmao. you need help mate :D Back to topic, one thing to add: Because the use of phones whilst driving is illegal, a court in Cologne has ruled that drivers using a satellite navigation system installed on a phone are infringing Section 23, Paragraph 1 of the German Highway Code. This only applies if you hold the phone in your hand whilst driving. If you use it via headset/speaker and car-holder there is no law against it,not even in Germany... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pbarclay Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 Back to topic, one thing to add: This only applies if you hold the phone in your hand whilst driving. If you use it via headset/speaker and car-holder there is no law against it,not even in Germany... I think that is fairly reasonable. I have TomTom6 on my HTC Touch Dual (and external bluetooth GPS), which sits in a Brodit custom made car holder in my Mini Cooper. I can quite safely program the device with my journey details before I even enter the car and then use it as I would a built in car sat nav but saving over £1000 on the MINI list price for a sat nav as an accessory. With the publicity about jail sentences for drivers who cause fatal accidents whilst handling their mobile telephone, I have become more conscious of the need to take extreme care when using a mobile. However, I feel that Sat Nav is surely far safer than any other form of in car navigation such as trying to read motoring atlases or printed Multimap turn by turn instructions. The gentle sounds of the voice guidance are quite soothing on a long journey and can be easily "zoned out" during the need for intense concentration such as a child suddenly running out into the road. Built in Sat Nav is great but far too expensive. Standalone units such as TomTom 920 are nice but easily stealable - I know many people whose units have been stolen when left in their car. The great thing about the Smartphone navigation solution is that you are never going to leave your phone in the car - it will go with you when you stop the car and can continue navigating as you continue your journey on foot!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ingvarr Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 If law was formulated like "illegal to speak on the phone", it would be ok. But since its "its using the phone", it almost deliberately made to block all possible uses of the things that is a phone (regardless of wheither it has the sim card inside or even if it works at all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Confucious Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 If law was formulated like "illegal to speak on the phone", it would be ok. But that wouldn't cover texting and if you ban texting as well it wouldn't cover MMS etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ingvarr Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 (edited) But that wouldn't cover texting and if you ban texting as well it wouldn't cover MMS etc.... Well, the "for purposes of communication" will cover it. I was just giving an example of less broader term. But obviously the main intent is to prevent distraction of driver. Since *any* activity can be pulled under "distraction", GPS use can be easely made illegal too, albeit absurd. Edited July 18, 2008 by Ingvarr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Confucious Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 Then you would get some idiot playing games on their phone... But reading the translationf the drivers for the device aufnehme or hold it against infringes Section 23 para 1 of a highway code.or hold it against infringes Section 23 para 1 of a highway code. and babel fish translates aufnehme at 'take up' it seems that German law precludes only holding or programming the pone and not just using it pre programmed. Unless I am mistaken. Which I frequently am... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirride Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 The text at heise says you are not allowed to manipulate anything at the phone during driving your car. This means (also written at heise and as I know those german rules (I am swiss but travelling often in Germany)) - Use the keypad to enter a number to call - Hold the phone to your ear (allowed using headset of course, but not the phone itself) - Write a SMS - Use any application, while "use" means that you program your navi or use the cam or play a game.... It IS allowed to be at a parking place, enter the destionation adress, begin to drive then following the the lovely voice :D So no worry about that message! Let ur simcard in the phone, do your (headset!) calls and follow the woman :D Then you would get some idiot playing games on their phone... But reading the translation and babel fish translates aufnehme at 'take up' it seems that German law precludes only holding or programming the pone and not just using it pre programmed. Unless I am mistaken. Which I frequently am... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nexxexium Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 I have never liked Germans. Now I wont go and spend money there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest holg Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 The text at heise says you are not allowed to manipulate anything at the phone during driving your car. This means (also written at heise and as I know those german rules (I am swiss but travelling often in Germany)) - Use the keypad to enter a number to call - Hold the phone to your ear (allowed using headset of course, but not the phone itself) - Write a SMS - Use any application, while "use" means that you program your navi or use the cam or play a game.... It IS allowed to be at a parking place, enter the destionation adress, begin to drive then following the the lovely voice :D So no worry about that message! Let ur simcard in the phone, do your (headset!) calls and follow the woman :D Don't you read the other posts? Actually it is allowed to use the phone if you don't hold it in your hand. You can dial a number if it's in a car holder and make the call through a handsfree unit. The same applies here. Compare it to a built in radio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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