WM 6.1 - Starting GPS Reliably Every Time

[Guest mobelby]

Hi,

From various posts on myblackjack2.com and this site, it does seem as if the gps lock (limiting gps use to only at&t telenav and windows live) included in the WM6.1 ROM for the Blackjack 2 has different levels of stickiness depending on your phone - ie your mileage may vary and you may find that your gps works instantly with google maps and garmin or you may not.

For me I found that the gps did not start reliably. When it worked it would pick up a gps signal within 30 seconds. When it did not, it would either fail to pick up a gps signal at all or it may take several minutes or several hours.

I found this lack of reliabilty completely frustrating and I've tried every solution until I've got to the stage that I can recommend the following solution. It should work regardless of whichever app lock you have applied and should mean you pick up satellites almost instantaneously.

The steps are:

1. Install the freeware Microsft GPSID http://www.modaco.com/content/smartphone-s...-on-smartphone/

2. Use the following settings for GPSID - Program Port COM4, Hardware Port - leave blank, Speed - 9600 and check the box saying let windows manage it automatically.

3. Reboot

4. Install the freeware GPS Test http://classic.pocketgear.com/software_det...p;associateid=9

5. Make sure you use the same settings in GPS Test in the options section - ie COM4 and 9600 speed for the GPS ID

6. Exit out of GPS Test (press 6 then 1) and reboot

7. Now try out GPS Test. It should find your GPS device instantly and give you immediate information on the satellites.

Once you have GPS Test running correctly you can either leave it running in the background or exit. Either way if you now launch your main GPS program (eg garmin or google maps) it should pick up the satellites instantly.

Hope this helps some frustrated soul like myself.

[Guest tamanaco]

I'm glad that you started this Kickstarting GPS with WM 6.1 thread. Like you, I have been very frustrated with reliability of the GPS function in the BJII with WM 6.1. When I upgraded to from WM 6.0 to 6.1 the GPS started to lock several satellites immediately even while indoors. I said to myself... FINALLY!!! the GPS works as expected... but I guess I celebrated too soon. I can stand in the middle of a park on a sunny day, but still be unable to lock a single satellite. Just the day before standing in the same place at the same time on a "cloudy" day... I was able to lock 6 satellites. Why?, Why?... Why? I had not made any changes to the settings of the phone... I reboot and reboot... and nothing.

Checking the steps you mentioned above, which I have followed in the past, work sometimes, but not all the time. The actual cause of our frustration has yet to be clearly identified. Besides the steps you mentioned above I have also found the following.

The registry value of "Interface Type" in the Registry Key below must be set to "PHONE" (without the quotes) . I find that sometimes this key is set to "COMM" and the GPS wont work.

\HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver\Drivers\SamsungGPSHardware

In the steps above you use GPSID to set the speed to 9600, but I noticed that by default the Value Data for the DWORD "Baud" for the same Registry key of the GPS Intermedia Driver I mentioned above is set to 38400. I use Baud 38400 instead of 9600 with GPSID and the GPS works just fine. (When it wants to). I also use the build-in GPSTEST application in the Windows folder with the following GPS settings:

Operating Type: Stand-Alone

Session Type: Nevigation

Start Type: Cold

I've been using the latest versions of Google maps, Live search and Garmin XT (5.00.10) successfully in my BJII... But I can not tell if or when one of them is going to work or if using them breaks or fixes the other GPS apps. One of the things I'd like to find out is the version of gpsapi.dll that comes with the WM 6.1 ROM and if there are newer versions of this dll around. I hope this thread attracts other BJII user with the same issues so that we can find the failing component(s)... Having to change settings and reboot, reboot, reboot to get a fix on a satellite is driving me up a wall.

[Guest thelostsoul]

There should not be any need to install any GPS "unlocking" applications. The only reason you should need to install any GPS related hacks is if you need to map the intermediate driver to a COM port (because your GPS program doesn't support the intermediate driver).

Windows Live, Garmin, Google Maps, TeleNav, and many more, all support the GPS intermediate driver.

As tamanaco described, getting a signal in a sunny day was hard, then in a cloudy was fast. This can always happen. Remember, getting a GPS signal is not at all like getting a cell signal. The satellites are very far away, and somewhere in the sky. Getting a signal depends one where you are in the world, where the satellite is currently at (they move!) as well as current air conditions, if your moving, and basically anything else you can think of.

I still advise against installing GPS hacks unless you know you need a COM port.

[Guest tamanaco]

There should not be any need to install any GPS "unlocking" applications. The only reason you should need to install any GPS related hacks is if you need to map the intermediate driver to a COM port (because your GPS program doesn't support the intermediate driver).

Windows Live, Garmin, Google Maps, TeleNav, and many more, all support the GPS intermediate driver.

As tamanaco described, getting a signal in a sunny day was hard, then in a cloudy was fast. This can always happen. Remember, getting a GPS signal is not at all like getting a cell signal. The satellites are very far away, and somewhere in the sky. Getting a signal depends one where you are in the world, where the satellite is currently at (they move!) as well as current air conditions, if your moving, and basically anything else you can think of.

I still advise against installing GPS hacks unless you know you need a COM port.

I agree with your advise against installing GPS hacks unless you have an app that specifically needs a COM port. I use the hack because I had an older versions of Garmin XT that required a COM port and once in a while I use Chartcross GPS test. Btw, as far as I know, the majority of existing GPS satellites orbit the earth at the same speed that the Earth rotates. (they're relatively fixed) They are also at a specific high and angle to the equator in what I think is called a geostationary Satellite Orbit. I forgot to mention that when I stand in the park I also tests my wife's BJII running WM 6.0. When I put the phones side by side my BJII will not get one satellite at all while her BJII will get a few satelites after a long wait. When things are working as expected on my BJII, I get a fix on several satellites in a couple seconds while her BJII still has to wait a long time. There is something different, but still fishy with the BJII GPS implementation on both WM 6.0 and 6.1.

EDIT: Here is another one. Sometimes I get both GPSTEST tools to acquire satellites, but when I start Google maps or Live Search they won't get a fix.

Edited October 5, 2008 by tamanaco

[Guest tamanaco]

Below are all the current settings that I can find in the Registry for the GPS Intermediate Driver. I installed the Modaco GPS hack and in the GPSID GUI I entered the same settings that mobelby mentioned above except that my Baud rate is set to 38400. I can get both GPS test apps to lock satellites after a few minutes, but today for some reason, I can not get Google Maps or Live Search to lock on anything. Both Google maps and Live Search are set to use the GPS Intemediate driver not a COM port. Yes, I have rebooted a few times after changing the settings. Can you guys post your setting for comparison?... Thanks

\GPS Intermedia Driver

(Default) -> (value not set)

CurrentLogFile -> \temp\NMEA_Log.txt

IsEnabled -> 0x1 (1)

MaxLogFileSize -> 0X8000 (32768)

OldLogFile -> \temp\NMEA_Log.bak

\GPS Intermedia Driver\Drivers

(Default) -> (value not set)

CurrentDriver -> SamsungGPSHardware

\GPS Intermedia Driver\Drivers\SamsungGPSHarware

(Default) -> (value not set)

Baud -> 0x9600 (38400)

CommPort -> (None)

FriendlyName -> Samsung GPS Hardware

InterfaceType -> PHONE

\GPS Intermedia Driver\Drivers\Multiplexer

(Default) -> (value not set)

DriverInterface -> COM4:

\GPS Intermedia Driver\Drivers\Multiplexer\ActiveDevice

(Default) -> (value not set)

Context -> 0x12344160 (305414496

Dll -> PHONEGPSID.dll

Flags -> 0x2 (2)

Index -> 0x4 (4)

Keep -> 0x1 (1)

Prefix -> COM

====

EDIT:

====

Today after looking around at all the processes running on the background of my BJII, I ran across mailwatcher.exe a component of XpressMail from AT&T. I noticed that it was taking excesive CPU cycles and not going idle, so I decided to remove the AT&T XpressMail client, re-install it and re-register with my email service provider. Now the mailwatcher.exe is not taking as many CPU cycles and it is in an idle state most of the time. Now Google maps and Live Search started to lock satellites more frequently. I think I found another piece of the puzzle to fix the GPS issues with my BJII setup.

Edited October 5, 2008 by tamanaco

[Guest mobelby]

Tamanco,

Will post my settings later today.

How do you get rid of that mailwatcher program. I am not with AT&T so have no need of it

Thanks

M

[Guest tamanaco]

How do you get rid of that mailwatcher program. I am not with AT&T so have no need of it

First I identified the CPU hugging process using Task Manager -> Processes View. I then deleted the shortcut that start sXpressMail from the \Windows\Startup folder. After that I used the Settings -> Remove Programs to remove XpressMail (mailwatcher) from the phone. I also deleted the \Program Files\AT&T folder before rebooting and re-installing XpressMail. The BJII is a bit more responsive now.

Edited October 6, 2008 by tamanaco

[Guest mobelby]

Tamanco,

Unfortunately my registry settings are identical to yours.

Today I can't get any gps fix whatsoever so this is totally unreliable again ;)

Also don't have any problems with XpressMail

[Guest FAF_DRAKO]

Tamanco,

Unfortunately my registry settings are identical to yours.

Today I can't get any gps fix whatsoever so this is totally unreliable again ;)

Also don't have any problems with XpressMail

The problem with the GPS Hack is that even if you have chosen Intermediate Drivers on the software your using... it still conflicts with the Intermediate Drivers. With WM 6.1 there's no need what so ever to use COM4. I suggest you get rid of the Hacks and Start from scratch. Also to improve performance on your GPS software... keep your SMS Folders as clean as possible and at least once a day remember to turn off your cell for a min or so. Just good practice to keep things running smoothly. Ever since I did a clean install of WM 6.1 and the latest Version of Garmin Mobile XT. Now both Garmin and Google Maps get satelites almost instant and have yet to fail since WM 6.1 has been released. I have never installed Live GPS ever since it was known to coflict a while back with Google Maps and Garmin back the when using WM 6.0. Not sure if they've fixed this but don't care to ruin my setup to find out either...LOL

[Guest tamanaco]

The problem with the GPS Hack is that even if you have chosen Intermediate Drivers on the software your using... it still conflicts with the Intermediate Drivers. With WM 6.1 there's no need what so ever to use COM4. I suggest you get rid of the Hacks and Start from scratch. Also to improve performance on your GPS software... keep your SMS Folders as clean as possible and at least once a day remember to turn off your cell for a min or so. Just good practice to keep things running smoothly. Ever since I did a clean install of WM 6.1 and the latest Version of Garmin Mobile XT. Now both Garmin and Google Maps get satelites almost instant and have yet to fail since WM 6.1 has been released. I have never installed Live GPS ever since it was known to coflict a while back with Google Maps and Garmin back the when using WM 6.0. Not sure if they've fixed this but don't care to ruin my setup to find out either...LOL

I have not experienced such conflicts with the Modaco hack. I used it with WM 6.0 and I have been using it with WM 6.1 for quite some time without any issues. Right now I'm using Chartcross GPSTest via COM4 and Garmin XT using the Intermediate driver simultaneously with 9 satellites locked. The GPS in my BJII has a history of acting up once in a while with or without the hack. The severe problems with my BJII GPS started recently and I was able to narrow it down to a corrupted XpressMail component that was hugging the CPU. While searching for the problem I removed the Modaco GPS hack and it made no difference. As far as I know, all the hack does is mask the API of the Intermediate driver to look like a well known COM port for legacy applications that do not know how to interface to the Intermediate GPS driver API (IGDA). In other words, it creates an "alias" for the Intermediate driver API to "redirect" calls to the COM port to the driver API. (COMx=IGDA). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Btw, I'd like to understand how clearing the SMS folder influence the behavior of the GPS in the BJII other providing additional memory space. I agree that when the GPS acts up a soft-reset (reboot) or turning the BJII off/on can often fix the problem.

Edited October 7, 2008 by tamanaco

[Guest mobelby]

Drako,

I understand the sms folders filling up was interfering with garmin as mentioned in your other threads. However, I agree with Tamanco in that the gps hack simply provides another alias for the gps driver port and you can have apps with com 4 and apps with intermediate drivers happily running simultaneously.

Still don't think we're near a real resolution of this problem that affects random users.

What I will do now is a couple of hard resets and then reinstall garmin xt (latest version) without any hacks to see if there is any improvement

[Guest tamanaco]

What I will do now is a couple of hard resets and then reinstall garmin xt (latest version) without any hacks to see if there is any improvement

My experience has been that after a "hard" reset the GPS works perfectly, but after installing a few apps (no gps hack) or moving far away from the area where the GPS initially locked satellites... causes the GPS to act up. I suspect that there is an issue with the firmware in the GPS or with the Intermediate GPS Driver when the phone tries to "warm" start the GPS. It "could be" that the driver gets bugged down trying to use cached data that might be either outdated or currupted due to a memory leak. The driver continues to try to "warm" start the GPS when it should automatically clear the cache and "cold" start the GPS unit. I think this is the reason, most times, when the phone is soft-reset it locks satellites after some time. A hard reset clears all cache data and forces the Intermediate driver to do a GPS "cold" start... while a soft-reset "might not" force the driver to clear and restart 100% of the time. I'm probably wrong, but this is what I suspect.

Edited October 7, 2008 by tamanaco

[Guest mobelby]

Tamanco,

Found a way to reset the GPS Intermediate Driver without doing a full hard reset (phew).

I looked at your registry settings above and in particular:

\GPS Intermedia Driver\Drivers\Multiplexer

(Default) -> (value not set)

DriverInterface -> COM4:

One thing that struck me about this setting was the colon after the COM4 so I decided to remove it and reboot and see what happenned. Sure enough neither GPS Test nor Garmin could even find the GPS device never mind any satellites. I then reinserted the colon, rebooted again and voila it all worked as new.

By new, I mean that GPS Test instantly finds satellites (less than one second). So this is at least one way to get the thing back up and running without doing a hard reset

[Guest tamanaco]

mobelby, the procedure you mentioned above still requires a soft-reset whenever the GPS acts up. There has to be a better way to get the GPS of the BJII to work reliably without having to soft-reset. Soft-resetting is a very disruptive procedure.

I also find that even if you stay in the same place and close any of the GPS apps for a prolonged period of time the GPS will again take a long time to lock satellites (warm start). For me, as it currently stands, the BJII GPS is basically useless. Having to wait so long to get the GPS to lock to satellites is a joke. I can find the place I'm looking for in a mile radius by walking around before I can get a satellite lock on a sunny day. I wonder if this issue is common with other Smartphones with the AGPS SiRF III Assisted GPS chipset and WM 6.x. I doubt that other phone with the same chipset and the same version of the GPS Intermediate Driver are working flawlessly. If similar Smartphone are working without the issues that we're experiencing; then we need to compare GPS driver versions. The driver in my BJII ROM is 2.9kb (3012 bytes) and is dated 02/21/08. Does anyone know of a tool to help me find out the version of the GPS Intermediate driver? I just tried Total Commander, but it does not display the version of the dll.

Edited October 11, 2008 by tamanaco

[Guest paper_wastage]

heres my story:

on WM6.0, GPS starts slow(~10 minutes with both GPSTest and Garmin), but it starts

on WM6.1, i installed GPSID and set to Program Port(Com 4), Hardware(empty), Baud(9600)

using Chartcross's GPSTest, i see a satellite communication within 2 minutes, a GPS lock within 5.... same behavior on WM6.0, but a little faster

using Garmin, its YMMV....... in the settings, if i set to use COM4, Garmin says 'scanning', but after some time, it goes directly to GPS intermediate driver (which shows Garmin cannot connect via COM4, but ChartCross can)....

if i set it to GPS Intermediate Driver, its also YMMV.... in the GPS info, it would say 'Acquiring Satellite'.... in WM6.0, i would see some bars on the right hand side showing that its connecting to satellites and slowly getting a full 3D signal... in WM6.1, it either waits a long time and no signal, or directly goes from no satellite connection to 3D satellite lock(which means i dunno whether the GPS is working or not)... think i need to reinstall garmin some time

Edited October 12, 2008 by paper_wastage

[Guest FAF_DRAKO]

mobelby, the procedure you mentioned above still requires a soft-reset whenever the GPS acts up. There has to be a better way to get the GPS of the BJII to work reliably without having to soft-reset. Soft-resetting is a very disruptive procedure.

I also find that even if you stay in the same place and close any of the GPS apps for a prolonged period of time the GPS will again take a long time to lock satellites (warm start). For me, as it currently stands, the BJII GPS is basically useless. Having to wait so long to get the GPS to lock to satellites is a joke. I can find the place I'm looking for in a mile radius by walking around before I can get a satellite lock on a sunny day. I wonder if this issue is common with other Smartphones with the AGPS SiRF III Assisted GPS chipset and WM 6.x. I doubt that other phone with the same chipset and the same version of the GPS Intermediate Driver are working flawlessly. If similar Smartphone are working without the issues that we're experiencing; then we need to compare GPS driver versions. The driver in my BJII ROM is 2.9kb (3012 bytes) and is dated 02/21/08. Does anyone know of a tool to help me find out the version of the GPS Intermediate driver? I just tried Total Commander, but it does not display the version of the dll.

Not sure what to tell you guys then man... my GPS always works no matter where I am and when I decide to use it. It always finds Sats as soon as I turn Garmin on.

[Guest tamanaco]

Not sure what to tell you guys then man... my GPS always works no matter where I am and when I decide to use it. It always finds Sats as soon as I turn Garmin on.

I'm assuming that you have a BJII and are using the built-in GPS receiver... not an external GPS receiver.

Could you tell us the following:

Are you using WM6.0 or WM6.1?

What version of Garmin?

Using Garmin connected via the Intermediate GPS Driver or via a COM? (If via a COM port... which port and what Baud rate?)

Can you tell us the size and date of the GPSAPI.DLL that Garmin is using? ("Usually" in ROM - Hidden file in the Windows folder)

When you say that Garmin finds Satellites as soon as you turn Garmin on... how soon in sec or min does it take to lock onto Satellites?

Does it work just as fast with the latest versions of Google maps and Live Search when you try to find your location using GPS.

Can you post any value in your register that differs from the values I posted in a previous post.

Where are you located?

Thanks...

[Guest Sed8ed]

I'm assuming that you have a BJII and are using the built-in GPS receiver... not an external GPS receiver.

Could you tell us the following:

Are you using WM6.0 or WM6.1?

What version of Garmin?

Using Garmin connected via the Intermediate GPS Driver or via a COM? (If via a COM port... which port and what Baud rate?)

Can you tell us the size and date of the GPSAPI.DLL that Garmin is using? ("Usually" in ROM - Hidden file in the Windows folder)

When you say that Garmin finds Satellites as soon as you turn Garmin on... how soon in sec or min does it take to lock onto Satellites?

Does it work just as fast with the latest versions of Google maps and Live Search when you try to find your location using GPS.

Can you post any value in your register that differs from the values I posted in a previous post.

Where are you located?

Thanks...

I thought I'd add to this....

I have 6.1 installed and Garmin XT 5.0, even after the update of both phone OS and Garmin XT I have a perfectly functioning GPS...in fact the GPS is faster in Garmin now on first lock, and I already considered 1-2 minutes sufficient with version 4.X.

Phone has to be fully application unlocked, no GPS activators or hacks needed. The GPS Intermediate Driver takes care of the lot....no need to configure anything. Baud rate is set by Intermediate driver at 9600.....no need to change anything in the registry either (it can be done but leave it alone)..

No need to kickstart the GPS with anything, Garmin uses the Intermediate driver by default if it finds your GPS, if you have a full version and it's installed properly....on first install and boot of Garmin it will take anywhere from 2 minutes to 8 minutes to find your GPS and it will then proceeed to fire it up and run it all of it's own accord. Mine now does this in roughly thirty seconds line of sight to the sky....about 2-4 minutes in a moving car. I just hard reset my phone and re-instaled Garmin this morning.....all up it took 3 minutes to implement the GPS (including searching) and get a 3D lock of my position.....second run it was up in 30 seconds (shutdown off phone and reboot), and it's a cloudy day outside. I am located in Australia.

The old saying goes dont fix it if it aint broke......dont install any com port activators or the like, it only puts you in a position where a hard reset is required. I dont use Gogle maps or Live search as they are crud for GPS locating....but from other threads on this forum they work much better since the move to 6.1 as the GPSID has been overhauled and the inclusion of AGPS under the hood probably helpthe triangulation.

[Guest mobelby]

Hi there sed8ed,

Your words of wisdom are noted but can I ask the following questions:

1. Is the only gps program you have installed garmin xt 5.00.10w ?

2. Did you install a clean version of garmin xt version 5 or did you install version 4 first and then upgrade ?

3. After the first "gps lock" what is the longest time it's taken to get a lock in garmin ?

4. What is the longest gap you've had between closing down garmin and the next time you've fired it up.

5. Are the only application unlockers you have used surreal networks and sda ? And did you use these before installing garmin ?

6. Have you deleted the gprs settings for AT&T and MediaNet ?

7. Do you allow garmin to have "always" or "promted" access to gprs data?

Thanks

This will certainly help Tamanco and me work out whether we have defective hardware

Edited October 13, 2008 by mobelby

[Guest Sed8ed]

Hi there sed8ed,

Your words of wisdom are noted but can I ask the following questions:

1. Is the only gps program you have installed garmin xt 5.00.10w ?

2. Did you install a clean version of garmin xt version 5 or did you install version 4 first and then upgrade ?

3. After the first "gps lock" what is the longest time it's taken to get a lock in garmin ?

4. What is the longest gap you've had between closing down garmin and the next time you've fired it up.

5. Are the only application unlockers you have used surreal networks and sda ? And did you use these before installing garmin ?

6. Have you deleted the gprs settings for AT&T and MediaNet ?

7. Do you allow garmin to have "always" or "promted" access to gprs data?

Thanks

This will certainly help Tamanco and me work out whether we have defective hardware

1. Garmin is the only GPS I have installed but in the past I have had Google Maps and Live search

2. No...my Garmin was an update over the top of a previous install. If I do a hard reset 5.0 is the most recent update so the card installs the 5.0.x version....I started with a very early version and have always updated over the top as I have it installed to storage card.

3. no more than 2 minutes in the past for a lock after the very first initialisation. Since updating Phone to 6.1 and Garmin to 5.0 It takes 30 seconds....no crap!!! BUT...must be direct line of sight and static (i.e no movement). If I'm in the car and moving it's 2-4 minutes tops.

4. A few days....I use it quite often as it's my primary GPS. I think I've gone a week without using it though.

5. I use surreal networks unlock and secpolicies...thats all.

6. I have deleted the AT&T and Media net GPRS settings but it worked regardless of this (Garmin and GPS). In fact I install Garmin first afetr a hard reset as it's the first installer to run once I insert my card..I often set it up and then follow on with the application unlockers and other installs like tcpmp and flashvideo bundle.cabs

7. I've had it set up for both prompted and for always on....atm I am using it for prompted. I use the weather feature sometimes.

I keep my sms storage to a minimum as well, I have run ito issues where the SMS build up has caused some flakiness with Garmin, it has also affected my friends BJII as well, we purchased as a bundle from ebay about a year ago when the BJII was first released.....It has been the most reliable phone I have ever owned lol....I had a hiccup lately where I could not use it at all, it would not connect to a network, and phone always restarted with an "An Error Has Occured" message, was solved with a hard reset, this was shortly afetr going to 6.1 and also I had deleted the "forcecellconnection" registry entry in the HKLM/connections/conn/providers section. I have been able to reproduce it but it's Off topic for this thread.....

Hope I could help!!