UNLOCKING CDMA I910 GPS - please help us!

[Guest JASTECH]

Here is a tid bit that sounds good.

DavidB 07.10.08 at 5:08 pm

There is news of a class action lawsuit regarding Verizon disabling the GPS even though they marketed the phone with “built-in GPS” and made no caveats regarding it’s use. No mention that extra software is required, no mention that an extra fee is required, no mention that the software that comes on the device as supplied by Verizon won’t function with the “built-in GPS”. There is a class action suit filed in November 2007 in US District Court. The BAD news though is that the first action regarding the suit isn’t until January 2009.

Thanks, JASTECH ô¿ô

[Guest Apo11on]

Here is a tid bit that sounds good.

DavidB 07.10.08 at 5:08 pm

There is news of a class action lawsuit regarding Verizon disabling the GPS even though they marketed the phone with “built-in GPS” and made no caveats regarding it’s use. No mention that extra software is required, no mention that an extra fee is required, no mention that the software that comes on the device as supplied by Verizon won’t function with the “built-in GPS”. There is a class action suit filed in November 2007 in US District Court. The BAD news though is that the first action regarding the suit isn’t until January 2009.

Thanks, JASTECH ô¿ô

that's very good news, i hope Verizon gets stuffed with a few million dollar fine for this and also will have to pay people back their fees for the Navigator usage.

if you got any more news on the law suit, such as link, who filed it, etc - please post. I, personally, would be very much interested in supporting it.

[Guest phantomguy1]

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Edited December 5, 2008 by phantomguy1

[Guest Aximtreo]

Is this true for the Verizon SCH-i910?

Any Hidden Charges?

There aren't exactly any "hidden" charges, per se, but you will likely be charged data access fees for the initial software download through Verizon's Get It Now service. Moreover, whenever the handset needs to connect to the network to determine your location (e.g., at the start of your trip, when finding a map, when looking for a point of interest, etc.), you will be charged airtime. If you go off route and the VZ Navigator needs to re-draw a route, you will also be charged airtime. Occasionally, the service will want to reconnect to the network to confirm your current location; this also results in charged airtime. In general, however, airtime is not charged while you are en route.

Thanks, JASTECH

ô¿ô

I just sent a very nice email to the contact above. I pointed out some of the same points being made here. I also pointed out that the Verizon Nav system only works if you have a vialble cell tower signal. What happens when you are in a dead zone )I live in Arizona) and you absolutely need a signal to get back on track. What happens when you are out hiking and don't have direct access to a cell tower and you get lost. In the past, I would point my cell to the southern skies and get a strong "satellite" signal to determine where I was. Oh well, I gave it the old college try. Let's see what happens.

[Guest Aximtreo]

I just sent a very nice email to the contact above. I pointed out some of the same points being made here. I also pointed out that the Verizon Nav system only works if you have a vialble cell tower signal. What happens when you are in a dead zone )I live in Arizona) and you absolutely need a signal to get back on track. What happens when you are out hiking and don't have direct access to a cell tower and you get lost. In the past, I would point my cell to the southern skies and get a strong "satellite" signal to determine where I was. Oh well, I gave it the old college try. Let's see what happens.

[Guest somedude]

I just sent a very nice email to the contact above. I pointed out some of the same points being made here. I also pointed out that the Verizon Nav system only works if you have a vialble cell tower signal. What happens when you are in a dead zone )I live in Arizona) and you absolutely need a signal to get back on track. What happens when you are out hiking and don't have direct access to a cell tower and you get lost. In the past, I would point my cell to the southern skies and get a strong "satellite" signal to determine where I was. Oh well, I gave it the old college try. Let's see what happens.

GOOD! I dont think my email will be very nice at all though lol.

[Guest jstrick5]

I just sent a very nice email to the contact above. I pointed out some of the same points being made here. I also pointed out that the Verizon Nav system only works if you have a vialble cell tower signal. What happens when you are in a dead zone )I live in Arizona) and you absolutely need a signal to get back on track. What happens when you are out hiking and don't have direct access to a cell tower and you get lost. In the past, I would point my cell to the southern skies and get a strong "satellite" signal to determine where I was. Oh well, I gave it the old college try. Let's see what happens.

You don't understand the technology involved. YOU MUST have access to a cellular tower to use GPS software for a phone equipped with aGPS. Google aGPS and it will describe why.

[Guest somedude]

You don't understand the technology involved. YOU MUST have access to a cellular tower to use GPS software for a phone equipped with aGPS. Google aGPS and it will describe why.

But from what i understand the omnia has a internal gps chip inside. For instance, i am still able to use igo navigation on my old i900 even though i dont have a service provider for that phone anymore.

[Guest abatis]

Here is a good discussion on aGPS http://wmexperts.com/articles/gps_vs_agps_...k_tutorial.html It would appear to me that it is a carrier decision to lock down the aGPS chip and not allow it to go satillite only mode if a tower is not available for a quick fix.

I don't think this quote is completely accurate. I think Verizon had the option to lock the chip to aGPS only mode.

(jstrick5 @ Dec 5 2008, 16:10)

You don't understand the technology involved. YOU MUST have access to a cellular tower to use GPS software for a phone equipped with aGPS. Google aGPS and it will describe why.

[Guest Anubis119]

What program out there would be best to view the communication between VZNavigator and the GPS (similar to Ethereal)? I haven't used anything of the sort on WM before, so sorry for such a simple question. From this thread it certainly sounds like there's a handshake going on in the background to start the flow of data. If someone could point me in a direction to a viable software package to collect the data, I'll take a look at it this weekend and see what I can come up with.

I would think that even if a cell tower is required for the standard GPS portion to work (or if there's only aGPS), wouldn't we be able to emulate VZNavigator to get the necessary information?

[Guest Apo11on]

What program out there would be best to view the communication between VZNavigator and the GPS (similar to Ethereal)? I haven't used anything of the sort on WM before, so sorry for such a simple question. From this thread it certainly sounds like there's a handshake going on in the background to start the flow of data. If someone could point me in a direction to a viable software package to collect the data, I'll take a look at it this weekend and see what I can come up with.

I would think that even if a cell tower is required for the standard GPS portion to work (or if there's only aGPS), wouldn't we be able to emulate VZNavigator to get the necessary information?

try this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread...3323&page=7

I think v1.6 is the latest

[Guest dhoppy]

try this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread...3323&page=7

I think v1.6 is the latest

that program logs hits to the registry, not communication with the gps.

[Guest Apo11on]

that program logs hits to the registry, not communication with the gps.

That is correct. However, I'm not sure VZN has direct open communication channel with radio firmware - it probably goes through WM OS. Also, we're not really interested in the communication traffic during VZN operation - we want only the initial sequence, which unlocks the GPS radio for use. And I thought VZN might be setting some registry values when that happens, so the program might be useful. I will try to look up another software for GPS radio traffic monitoring, but that might be tricky thing to find...

[Guest Apo11on]

Anubis119 check out these 2 links:

http://www.tucows.com/preview/227730

http://www.tucows.com/preview/preview/504714

2nd one can only log data received *from* gps, not the incoming stuff. Still could be helpful though.

there is also a hardware solution, which does *exactly* what we need:

http://homepages.tig.com.au/~robk/logger-s...cification.html

Edited December 5, 2008 by Apo11on

[Guest pjsockett]

You need a cellular signal for agps but the gps would still work without it. The agps assists the lock through triagulation for faster lock times. on the previous phone that were unlocked you were able to use gps but it took 2-3 to lock. Once the agps settings were entered into the registry or qpst the locks dropped to 5-10 seconds. You can lock without a cell or data connection but it takes longer.

[Guest JASTECH]

That is correct. However, I'm not sure VZN has direct open communication channel with radio firmware - it probably goes through WM OS. Also, we're not really interested in the communication traffic during VZN operation - we want only the initial sequence, which unlocks the GPS radio for use. And I thought VZN might be setting some registry values when that happens, so the program might be useful. I will try to look up another software for GPS radio traffic monitoring, but that might be tricky thing to find...

Sense the Omnia does have GPS and A-GPS it will work either way. So I agree like stated above, If you don't have any service with Verizon and their regurgitated answers the GPS is suppose to work and get you back to camp, Home safely ect. I will lean on a Life/Safety very heavily when corresponding with them.

I posted the FCC files I had. I think they had information on the GPS communication?

I will try and get a hold of other documents to help assist in this if needed.

Thanks, JASTECH ô¿ô

Edited December 5, 2008 by JASTECH

[Guest JASTECH]

Here is another snippit as someone here mentioned the BB GPS that was also locked by V.

For three, and here's the kicker, it turns out that while GPS on certain BB models have been unlocked, it's only been unlocked for BlackBerry Maps, not for other 3rd party GPS applications on the platform. In other words, it pretty much looks like RIM put the screws to Verizon to allow their own on-board Maps app to work properly so as to not screw with user expectations for the platform, but didn't fight so hard that they got the big V to open GPS up completely.

Thanks, JASTECH ô¿ô

[Guest JASTECH]

I just got off the horn with Verizon asking about their i910, and yes indeed they won't even sell you one w/o a Data Package of 29.99 or 49.99 a month! So if someone bought a 910 from outside source would they still charge you the Data Package to give you service?

Now I need to find an unlocked Omnia that is new or like new for cheap sense AT&T don't have the phone.

Thanks, JASTECH ô¿ô

Edited December 6, 2008 by JASTECH

[Guest GSBJackson]

Here are a few observations I've discovered about using VZNav (as if we have a choice)...

1. VZNav stops navigating when a call comes in or you dial out via Bluetooth... upon call completion, the Nav catches up to your location. This indicates to me that either the GPS radio can't be used simultaneous with voice and/or BT, and/or that VZNav doesn't depend strictly on GPS satelite and needs tower triangulation (data) throughout. <_<
   
2. If the WiFi is active and you launch VZNav, it can't connect with the towers for TTFF and times out and never obtains a GPS satelite lock. B)
   
3. After lauching VZNav and immediately launching Google Maps or Windows Live, both see the GPS com port, but never receive feedback from the GPS on location. B)
   
4. My biggest issue with VZNav is that it doesn't allow you to select a Contact for address destination. For me, that's the deal killer. Along with not being able to talk (BT) and nav at the same time. B)
   

So until this GPS lockdown issue is resolved, I'm going back to using my BT GPS which works great with iGuidance V3 on Omnia. Still attempting to load TT6, but have to call them to activate on a different phone (not transferable).

I think you guys are on to something about the GPS radio being turned on and off by VZNav. B)

[Guest Paul (MVP)]

Has anyone tried setting that RIL GPS registry key to 1 then connecting?

P

[Guest JASTECH]

I just read this, what do you think?

Korean Pocket PC website Todaysppc.com has a review of the Samsung SCH-M490 (T*Omnia) Windows Mobile 6.1 Pro Phone which is the Omnia on steroids with larger screen (3.3 inch) and higher resolution WVGA (480x800). There is a strange adaptor attached to it, not sure what it is for. Any Korean around can enlighten us? Camera remains the same. It is selling in Japan and Korea at the moment. Check out the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcN7QatlESQ. Looks very cool.

Update: Samsung has applied for FCC (USA) clearance for the SCH-M490 which means an English version will likely to released in USA. https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports...27A3LSCHM490%27

Thanks, JASTECH ô¿ô

[Guest JASTECH]

Paul, How you doing? I have to send my stuff back, they want to charge me the 30.00 a month and I am disabled now and can't afford it. I talked to them for 2 hours tonight and they said there is no way around it. I have to use my fingers on the screen so it was perfect. I will still try and help here with what I can. I am bummed big time:-(

Thanks, JASTECH ô¿ô

[Guest jbullington]

I was hoping to use the GPS for a golf caddie program and not directions so until VZnavigator maps out yardage to front, middle and back of the green they can stuff their $10 fee. An since I live in the frozen northern of NYS, you guys have a good 3/4 months to get this done. B)

[Guest JASTECH]

I was hoping to use the GPS for a golf caddie program and not directions so until VZnavigator maps out yardage to front, middle and back of the green they can stuff their $10 fee. An since I live in the frozen northern of NYS, you guys have a good 3/4 months to get this done. B)

Not only the 10.00 fee, I was on the phone with them and you HAVE to pay the 29.99 a month too for Data Package weather or not you use it. I can't get the DATA signal in my area and they still want to charge me.

Thanks, JASTECH ô¿ô

[Guest Apo11on]

I just read this, what do you think?

Korean Pocket PC website Todaysppc.com has a review of the Samsung SCH-M490 (T*Omnia) Windows Mobile 6.1 Pro Phone which is the Omnia on steroids with larger screen (3.3 inch) and higher resolution WVGA (480x800). There is a strange adaptor attached to it, not sure what it is for. Any Korean around can enlighten us? Camera remains the same. It is selling in Japan and Korea at the moment. Check out the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcN7QatlESQ. Looks very cool.

Update: Samsung has applied for FCC (USA) clearance for the SCH-M490 which means an English version will likely to released in USA. https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports...27A3LSCHM490%27

Thanks, JASTECH ô¿ô

T*Omnia is old news, its been out for weeks and there are threads about it here, on modaco. The strange adaptor it's referring to is most likely the antenna for tv - T*Omnia has built in DMB digital tv tunner for korean television. And whoever said that stuff about T*Omnia being sold in Korea and Japan is wrong - this device is domestic only (Samsung is a korean company) and Japan has different beast - the japanese model is i930SC (softbank). Btw, korean T*Omnia comes in 2 flavors: 4GB space model is sch-m490 and 16GB space is sch-m495. Samsung explicitly stated T*Omnia is a domestic model only, it aint gonna be hitting US market any time soon and I doubt japanese one will either. Google is your friend.