Guest xenspidey Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 I removed "solved" from the title even though I disagree slightly. aGPS has been enabled on the CF03 release by Verizon. There may be debate over the type of aGPS used by GMaps vs VZNAV etc. Can we make the GPS work better (quicker locks)...probably. What i would like to see happen is aGPS (not just tower triangulation) work on 3rd party apps which is currently does not. i can get a GPS lock in VZNAV in under 10 seconds anytime anywhere, Google maps i can't. From a Hard reset i can open Google maps and it may take 5 minutes plus to get a lock at my desk, but if i hard rest and run VZNAV let it get a lock (which will take under 10 sec from my desk) then open up Google maps i have 6 sat lock immediatly. We just need to figure out how VZNAV is doing it and get it working for 3rd party apps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dmk679 Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Can someone post the latest version of VZNAV? As written previously by skywing (article link), VZNAV authenticates with a server to obtain PDE info. Related links: http://forums.pinstack.com/blog.php?bt=2567 http://www.blackberry.com/knowledgecenterp...48&vernum=0 http://www.blackberryforums.com/developer-...blackberry.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest baaadandy Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Some people need to listen to what xenspidey and some others are saying. There is 100% no aGPS enabled for third-party apps with this update. I know people are getting excited that Google Maps is giving them a relative location based on tower info before it can pull true GPS, but that has nothing to do with aGPS. aGPS is a network dependant feature that requires backend help from the carrier. When Google Maps gets your info "within 4400 meters" or whatever it may be, it's just using tower location info passed to the phone from the cell site and plants that location onto a map and uses a few other factors such as dBm for radius. Phones that don't even have GPS chips in them can get a rough location using this method. Verizon simply removed the lock on third-party apps accessing this info - see here. Doesn't anyone remember way back when Google introduced that feature? Most phones didn't have GPS in them. The chances of us getting aGPS to work are difficult now that the original Verizon aGPS server is locked (search that and XV6800/6900 aGPS for those who have no idea) so we have to either use Telus' or some genius will have to cook up something that can fool the VZW server into thinking we are paying for VZNav. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xenspidey Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Can someone post the latest version of VZNAV? As written previously by skywing (article link), VZNAV authenticates with a server to obtain PDE info. Related links: http://forums.pinstack.com/blog.php?bt=2567 http://www.blackberry.com/knowledgecenterp...48&vernum=0 http://www.blackberryforums.com/developer-...blackberry.html This is what i'm using. verizon_i910_4.1.5.220_PROD_LPS_signed.cab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Adrynalyne Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) Some people need to listen to what xenspidey and some others are saying. There is 100% no aGPS enabled for third-party apps with this update. I know people are getting excited that Google Maps is giving them a relative location based on tower info before it can pull true GPS, but that has nothing to do with aGPS. aGPS is a network dependant feature that requires backend help from the carrier. When Google Maps gets your info "within 4400 meters" or whatever it may be, it's just using tower location info passed to the phone from the cell site and plants that location onto a map and uses a few other factors such as dBm for radius. Phones that don't even have GPS chips in them can get a rough location using this method. Verizon simply removed the lock on third-party apps accessing this info - see here. Doesn't anyone remember way back when Google introduced that feature? Most phones didn't have GPS in them. The chances of us getting aGPS to work are difficult now that the original Verizon aGPS server is locked (search that and XV6800/6900 aGPS for those who have no idea) so we have to either use Telus' or some genius will have to cook up something that can fool the VZW server into thinking we are paying for VZNav. I think you need to read up a little on aGPS. There are several types, and just because its not MS Assist, does not mean there is no aGPS. Gmaps couldn't triangulate your approximate position prior to CF03, without the GPS being enabled, and locked in. While not as accurate, it can now. What does that mean? It means that Verizon enabled the feature on the phone. http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/gps_vs_a...k_tutorial.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- * Standalone - Your handset has no connection to the network, and uses only the GPS satellite signals it can currently receive to try and establish a location. * MS Based - Your handset is connected to the network, and uses the GPS signals + a location signal from the network. * MS Assisted - Your handset is connected to the network, uses GPS signals + a location signal then relays its 'fix' to the server, which then uses the signal strength from your phone to the network towers to further plot your position. You can still maintain voice communication in this scenario, but not 'Internet/Network service' ie Web Browser, IM, streaming TV etc.. * MS Assisted/Hybrid - Same as above, but network functionality remains. Normally only in areas with exceptional coverage. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The first two apply to us. You can bet that VZNav is using MS Assisted/Hybrid. Edited July 28, 2009 by Adrynalyne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xenspidey Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 I think you need to read up a little on aGPS. There are several types, and just because its not MS Assist, does not mean there is no aGPS. Gmaps couldn't triangulate your approximate position prior to CF03, without the GPS being enabled, and locked in. While not as accurate, it can now. What does that mean? It means that Verizon enabled the feature on the phone. http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/gps_vs_a...k_tutorial.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- * Standalone - Your handset has no connection to the network, and uses only the GPS satellite signals it can currently receive to try and establish a location. * MS Based - Your handset is connected to the network, and uses the GPS signals + a location signal from the network. * MS Assisted - Your handset is connected to the network, uses GPS signals + a location signal then relays its 'fix' to the server, which then uses the signal strength from your phone to the network towers to further plot your position. You can still maintain voice communication in this scenario, but not 'Internet/Network service' ie Web Browser, IM, streaming TV etc.. * MS Assisted/Hybrid - Same as above, but network functionality remains. Normally only in areas with exceptional coverage. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The first two apply to us. You can bet that VZNav is using MS Assisted/Hybrid. Well than i'll clearify it further. I'm looking to fully unlock the potential of aGPS for 3rd party apps :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Adrynalyne Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Well than i'll clearify it further. I'm looking to fully unlock the potential of aGPS for 3rd party apps ;) Now that would be nice. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest arirang Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 What i would like to see happen is aGPS (not just tower triangulation) work on 3rd party apps which is currently does not. i can get a GPS lock in VZNAV in under 10 seconds anytime anywhere, Google maps i can't. From a Hard reset i can open Google maps and it may take 5 minutes plus to get a lock at my desk, but if i hard rest and run VZNAV let it get a lock (which will take under 10 sec from my desk) then open up Google maps i have 6 sat lock immediatly. We just need to figure out how VZNAV is doing it and get it working for 3rd party apps. "...get a lock at my desk"? need turn-by-turn directions to the restroom? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jstrick5 Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 I was able to quickly test the settings that xenspidey posted and was able to get a lock on 5 sat's from my desk at work... before with the stock Verizon (updated) ROM i was unable to get a sat lock from inside and it would several minutes for iGO or GMaps to find sat's outside... if they even did get a lock before timing out. I was really unhappy with the lock times i was getting with just the Verizon update. Anyways, I'm MUCH happier with the initial testing performance increase. I'll have to do some more testing but so far so good! Ok i need some feedback on some settings. i'm getting locks in under 5 seconds inside after taking the battery out and so forth. i've never gotten that fast or that many satelites so quickly. it all started after changing my settings to the below. Let me know if anyone can duplicate these. [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Samsung\RIL\GPS] "Running"=dword:00000000 "ServerPort"=dword:000022B8 "ServerIP"="216.198.139.92" "EnablePDEIPFromNV"=dword:00000000 "VAccuracy"=dword:00000000 "TimeSync"=dword:00000000 "StartingMode"=dword:00000002 "SSL"=dword:00000000 "SessionType"=dword:00000001 "ServerAddress"="mpclm.eng.telusmobility.com:8889" "ResponseTime"=dword:00000002 "RefreshRate"=dword:00000001 "QOPDelay"=dword:0000000C "OperatingMode"=dword:00000002 "MaxLocationAge"=dword:00000000 "DownloadResult"=dword:00000000 "AGPSStatus"=dword:00000001 "Accuracy"=dword:00000013 "AccessPoint"="Vzw" i have a feeling that the bold ones are to take note of. i also downloaded xtra.bin and have a copy in / and in /windows. I'll test more this weekend since i'll be on the road. let me know if anyone has any luck with this. maybe it all is as simple as Serveraddress on the i900 was replaced with serverip and serverport on the i910. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dmk679 Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 This is what i'm using. verizon_i910_4.1.5.220_PROD_LPS_signed.cab Thank you for the file. I signed up for the 1-day VZNAV service to allow for testing. Just about all GPS locks (cold/warm/hot) occurred in 10-20s using VZNAV. Could hit 8+ sats very quickly, indoor or outdoor. I was dissapointed that warm/hot locks took so long. Using a newer version of the HTC GPS tool (attached; xda link) along with associated HTC GPS registry settings, it was determined that VZNAV does not need to be running to necessarily take advantage of the quicker locks. A cold lock using the HTC GPS tool (no VZNAV running prior), took about 10s, again 8+ sats. Other programs such as google maps or bing were not tested. With the VZNAV subscription completed, the same test with HTC GPS tool was run. The cold lock results were much different. Cold locks took about 40-50s with only 3-5 sats. Over the next minute, sats would increase to 8+. Outdoor results are more robust than indoor. Conclusion: VZNAV subscription confers additional benefit in obtaining GPS lock. Running the VZNAV executable is not necessarily required to obtain the additional benefit. VZNAV subscription either modifies a setting/file on the phone or modifies VZW server authentication in some manner.HTC_GPS_Tool.cab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xenspidey Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Thank you for the file. I signed up for the 1-day VZNAV service to allow for testing. Just about all GPS locks (cold/warm/hot) occurred in 10-20s using VZNAV. Could hit 8+ sats very quickly, indoor or outdoor. I was dissapointed that warm/hot locks took so long. Using a newer version of the HTC GPS tool (attached; xda link) along with associated HTC GPS registry settings, it was determined that VZNAV does not need to be running to necessarily take advantage of the quicker locks. A cold lock using the HTC GPS tool (no VZNAV running prior), took about 10s, again 8+ sats. Other programs such as google maps or bing were not tested. With the VZNAV subscription completed, the same test with HTC GPS tool was run. The cold lock results were much different. Cold locks took about 40-50s with only 3-5 sats. Over the next minute, sats would increase to 8+. Outdoor results are more robust than indoor. Conclusion: VZNAV subscription confers additional benefit in obtaining GPS lock. Running the VZNAV executable is not necessarily required to obtain the additional benefit. VZNAV subscription either modifies a setting/file on the phone or modifies VZW server authentication in some manner. I somewhat disagree with the subscription part. I've had a VZNAV subscription since i got the phone. (just realized it a few days ago, i forgot to cancel my "free" trial) but i've noticed that if i use VZNAV in the morning to just get a lock then the rest of the day i can get locks extremely fast with the modifications discussd previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cuzzinz Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I was able to quickly test the settings that xenspidey posted and was able to get a lock on 5 sat's from my desk at work... before with the stock Verizon (updated) ROM i was unable to get a sat lock from inside and it would several minutes for iGO or GMaps to find sat's outside... if they even did get a lock before timing out. I was really unhappy with the lock times i was getting with just the Verizon update. Anyways, I'm MUCH happier with the initial testing performance increase. I'll have to do some more testing but so far so good! Did you have to add the values that he had on that list? Cause if I manually go into the Samsung/RIL/GPS folder... the only value I see is "Running" DO i have to change these settings using a Windows based registry editing application? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jstrick5 Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Did you have to add the values that he had on that list? Cause if I manually go into the Samsung/RIL/GPS folder... the only value I see is "Running" DO i have to change these settings using a Windows based registry editing application? Yes, I added all of the new registry values. An update on testing - I'm still not getting the 20 sec lock times others say they are getting. The one major difference seems to be that I am now able to get a lock indoors. Lock times outside are slightly faster than before but still can take 1 minute + Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dmk679 Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I somewhat disagree with the subscription part. I've had a VZNAV subscription since i got the phone. (just realized it a few days ago, i forgot to cancel my "free" trial) but i've noticed that if i use VZNAV in the morning to just get a lock then the rest of the day i can get locks extremely fast with the modifications discussd previously. There could be a few different explanations. I do agree that it may be more than just VZNAV subscription rquired - running the executable on a "regular" basis (e.g., daily), may be required as you indicated. Since I only had a daily subscription, limited testing was performed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cuzzinz Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Yes, I added all of the new registry values. An update on testing - I'm still not getting the 20 sec lock times others say they are getting. The one major difference seems to be that I am now able to get a lock indoors. Lock times outside are slightly faster than before but still can take 1 minute + So you added all 20+ registry values and downloaded the xtra.bin file? lol i just wanna make sure i do this all correctly lol.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xenspidey Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 So you added all 20+ registry values and downloaded the xtra.bin file? lol i just wanna make sure i do this all correctly lol.. this will make it easier on you. just rename it to a .reg file. i have gpsmode set to 4 in this because i changed QPST setting from PDE to mobile i'm testing that out a little it might look promising. if anyone else can give feedback on this that'd be great.GPS.txt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lisbian08 Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 this will make it easier on you. just rename it to a .reg file. i have gpsmode set to 4 in this because i changed QPST setting from PDE to mobile i'm testing that out a little it might look promising. if anyone else can give feedback on this that'd be great.GPS.txt I took the above text file (reg entries) and imported them into the HTC GPS tool cab file and renamed it. If there are any other reg entries we need in the cab just post them and I will get them in.HTC_GPS_Tool_for_Omnia_ver_1.cab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jraygoza Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Lisbian08, I installed your cab file and it restarts my phone. With google maps I still get within 2400 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lisbian08 Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Lisbian08, I installed your cab file and it restarts my phone. With google maps I still get within 2400 miles To be quite honest, I am NOT the expert on this subject. dmk679 and xenspidey have done much more legwork than I. I simply cabbed together some of the stuff inside this thread. That being said. 2400 miles sounds more like a AGPS fix. How many satellites do you have locked. If you have a GPS lock, Google maps will tell you how many satellites you have locked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest baaadandy Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I think you need to read up a little........................ Well I feel like an idiot, and rightfully so. I really thought that was not classified as aGPS. I've read in many places and have been told My Location and similar are not aGPS. BUT, I will admit when I'm wrong. Thank you for linking that write-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xenspidey Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Lisbian08, I installed your cab file and it restarts my phone. With google maps I still get within 2400 miles I reallty hope you meant 2400 meters and not 2400 miles. And that is one thing that Verizon did on CF03 along with opening up the gps, they also opened up the ability of 3rd party apps to gain access to radio tower data. Unfortunatly this isn't managed my MS so other programs like GCzII are unable to use that type of aGPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jraygoza Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I reallty hope you meant 2400 meters and not 2400 miles. And that is one thing that Verizon did on CF03 along with opening up the gps, they also opened up the ability of 3rd party apps to gain access to radio tower data. Unfortunatly this isn't managed my MS so other programs like GCzII are unable to use that type of aGPS. yes I meant meters not miles. I was going to use the telus settings for QPST, but first wanted to try out your registry settings but got stuck on the second one. I had an htc titan before this phone and changes were very easy to make. So with cfo3 what can we use for gps? I tried the gps togle with destinator and still couldn't pick up a satallite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xenspidey Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 yes I meant meters not miles. I was going to use the telus settings for QPST, but first wanted to try out your registry settings but got stuck on the second one. I had an htc titan before this phone and changes were very easy to make. So with cfo3 what can we use for gps? I tried the gps togle with destinator and still couldn't pick up a satallite. I use Telus QPST settings. I have been mostly messing with the registry settings recently. i have a feeling though that we may have to do a little more invasive surgery than what we are currently doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jraygoza Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 I did a hard reset on the phone and all of a sudden aGPS works! Thank you all! Now I get locks under 5 seconds. Now time to test the regular GPS. Thank you all, and good luck! :) Jorge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluetooth_decay Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 The registry settings that are being posted in this thread...out of curiosity, what app is using them, particularly if your GPS software is talking directly to the serial port and Windows is not managing the GPS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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