PCPro 'review'

[Guest goatee]

I think the "reviewer" was just lazy and / or too busy to do a review, so just turned it on, and went to the beeb homepage. The phone is superior to the Wildfire in so many areas, that there's just no contest for me.

[Guest sawta]

PC Pro have a full section advertising for Windows Phone

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/windows-phone

Lets assume they are biased

[Guest Thermostat9]

There is an update.....

Thanks for all the comments. To the one or two who obviously hold strong opinions on the review, I would like to respond: I’m neither biased nor lazy - I just hold a different opinion on this phone. Let me explain why:

1) At PC Pro (to keep the playing field as even as possible), we don’t review rooted, hacked or modded phones. We only review phones as they come out of the box – in other words as the majority of buyers will experience their handsets. In our tests, and in my experience using the phone in this state, I found it to be sluggish and annoying to use.

I acknowledge it would almost certainly perform better with the Orange branding removed and a different ROM in place – that’s part of the joy of owning an Android phone for many - but doing so will invalidate your warranty (a not inconsiderable risk), plus it’s no different from many other handsets in this regard.

2) Build quality compared to most phones I’ve seen and used (and believe me I’ve seen a lot) is lightweight. Come back to me in 12 months and tell me it’s fine, that the buttons still work flawlessly and the finish is still tidy and I’ll hold my hands up. As it is, it doesn’t fill me with confidence that it’ll outlast the competition.

3) The price is good, but not that much different to the competition. Pay £99 on PAYG and then £10 per month for 24 months and the San Francisco will cost you £339. On contract the phone costs £480 over 24 months.

The Wildfire, in contrast, costs £308 over 24 months (on contract). The Defy costs £360 over 18 or 24 months (on contract), and is a superior all-round handset (better build, better camera). The good old Desire is now a similar £480 over 24 months too, with no up-front cost; again a nicer phone than the Orange.

If you absolutely must have a PAYG phone, the Orange San Francisco is a better deal than these handsets, but for the majority who want a free contract phone, others are better value.

4)Finally, battery life undeniably lags behind both the Wildfire and Defy. Whether you’re prepared to put up with that is up to you.

Let me just re-iterate what I say in the final paragraph. It isn’t an awful phone, but neither is it a great one. If all you want is a bargain Android phone, the Wildfire is cheaper in the long term, and feels better made too.

Meanwhile, there are plenty of other phones out there that are have superior build and better cameras (see point 3), and actually feel pleasant to use out of the box for not a lot more in real terms.

Best regards,

Jonathan Bray,

Reviews editor,

PC Pro.

[Guest blackanchorage]

There is an update.....

- At the price of the SF, upgrading every year is probably possible for most people. I don't think I'd want to use a Wildfire for the next two years.

- You can get much better sim-only deals than free phone deals. T-mobile gives 1GB a month for £10 or less. Not sure if you get any data with that £308 Wildfire.

- I won't be too upset if I lose my phone - it would be different if it was a Desire.

[Guest Carlos Abel Chavez Slim]

I'd like to see a comparison of those contracts that he's talking about.

He keeps going on about the HTC Wildfire "a superior all-round handset", but its screen is so poor you'd be hard pressed to do anything with it above normal phone functionality. In summary, he's talking hogwash.

[Guest Thermostat9]

He keeps going on about the HTC Wildfire "a superior all-round handset", but its screen is so poor you'd be hard pressed to do anything with it above normal phone functionality. In summary, he's talking hogwash.

That was my feeling - his own test on the Wildfire he says -

Using the low resolution 3.2in 240 x 320 TFT screen of the HTC Wildfire after the top end smartphones we’ve looked at recently comes as something of a shock to the system. Everything suddenly looks fuzzy and indistinct – it’s almost like going back to watching the snooker in black and white after watching it in colour

.

and

Despite a good list of other features, however, (FM tuner, GPS, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, accelerometer, proximity and light sensors) there is one major compromise – performance. This stems from the processor: it’s an older generation 528MHz Qualcomm processor, and it shows in our speed tests. Loading up the BBC homepage took an average of 42 seconds, well behind the pace of most modern smartphones (even budget ones)

then concludes with

Although the screen can’t match the Galaxy Portal’s for quality or resolution, and performance is on the slow side, the fact that it runs Android 2.1 out of the box, costs so little and Sense UI is so good edges it in front.

And gives it 5 stars!

[Guest oiltrader]

That was my feeling - his own test on the Wildfire he says

And gives it 5 stars!

Thermostat,

Just want to say your reply to his "defence" was very well written. Think it clears things up and I hope he replies soon. :unsure:

Maybe we should just direct all people reading that review to this thread so people can see the reality of how good this phone is!

OT

[Guest samjam]

That was my feeling - his own test on the Wildfire he says -

.

and

then concludes with

And gives it 5 stars!

Well he clearly still thinks it's better than SF; the wildfire review got 5 stars six months ago - it might not get 5 stars today.

Note that he's not marking the SF on raw capability or feature as we see it, but as a piece of durable consumer electronics.

He's not reviewing the concept of the SF, but the actual execution as manifest in a piece of glass and plastic.

Considering the fact that we all admit the SF needs to be de-orange-ated and the awareness we have of it's hardware unreliability I think he got it spot on.

Sad, but true.

Edited January 5, 2011 by samjam

[Guest Thermostat9]

Well he clearly still thinks it's better than SF; the wildfire review got 5 stars six months ago - it might not get 5 stars today.

Note that he's not marking the SF on raw capability or feature as we see it, but as a piece of durable consumer electronics.

He's not reviewing the concept of the SF, but the actual execution as manifest in a piece of glass and plastic.

But look at his comments from 6 month ago 'low resolution screen of the Wildfire .... comes as something of a shock to the system. Everything suddenly looks fuzzy and indistinct...' and '...there is one major compromise – performance. ....it’s an older generation ....and it shows in our speed tests. Loading up the BBC homepage took an average of 42 seconds, well behind the pace of most modern smartphones (even budget ones)'.

Yet when dismissing the ZTE he is simply not comparing like with like He tries to defend his dismissal of the ZTE by claiming that it is the cost of the contract that make it a marginal value not the ability of the device.

Considering the fact that we all admit the SF needs to be de-orange-ated and the awareness we have of it's hardware unreliability I think he got it spot on.

Sad, but true.

So, when someone asks your advice for their first budget smartphone what would you recommend to them, a San Francisco or a Wildfire? Or something else? And why?

[Guest 90180360]

Just let it go guys. Who cares about this review anyway? If you google "Orange San Francisco review", his review shows up on the third page.

Stop linking to it and it will stay this way.

[Guest samjam]

But look at his comments from 6 month ago 'low resolution screen of the Wildfire .... comes as something of a shock to the system. Everything suddenly looks fuzzy and indistinct...' and '...there is one major compromise – performance. ....it’s an older generation ....and it shows in our speed tests. Loading up the BBC homepage took an average of 42 seconds, well behind the pace of most modern smartphones (even budget ones)'.

Yet when dismissing the ZTE he is simply not comparing like with like He tries to defend his dismissal of the ZTE by claiming that it is the cost of the contract that make it a marginal value not the ability of the device.

So, when someone asks your advice for their first budget smartphone what would you recommend to them, a San Francisco or a Wildfire? Or something else? And why?

You don't get like-for-like in reviews unless they are comparative reviews.

I was close to getting a wildfire, but the tiny screen stopped me, cos I wanted to run droid48.

As for my friends, I tell 'em to get the SF from Argos, but I will flash it for them and I expect there will be a good chance they have to exchange it. But that says more about my friends. The last phone I recommended was the Dext (on the hope of Moto's now broken promise to provide froyo) - the reason cos it was cheap and had full keyboard. My friends ask me cos they want a cheap phone.

PcPro doesn't recommend cheap rubbish. We know the SF is unreliable, the reviewer thinks it won't last a year. I wonder if he is right, but at £70.00 I took the risk; but PCPRO aren't going to recommend their readers to take that risk.

Whatever the Wildfire specs may be, as a phone it is more reliable even if less featureful.

[Guest Thermostat9]

You don't get like-for-like in reviews unless they are comparative reviews.

That is not correct, the reviewer, in pretty much all his phone tests, is apparently comparing what is being tested with other phones.

PcPro doesn't recommend cheap rubbish. We know the SF is unreliable, the reviewer thinks it won't last a year. I wonder if he is right, but at £70.00 I took the risk; but PCPRO aren't going to recommend their readers to take that risk.

Then you need to read the columns by a couple of their long standing contributors in the current print edition (which I expect will appear on-line in the near future) as they do EXACTLY that.

I understand that to get the phone on a long contract from Orange unwise, but that is still not the point of a smartphone review is it? They should be reviewing the phone! And Jonathan Bray's response that the 'the price is not that different to the competition' is bizarre. Is there anywhere on the high street advertising where you can you get a Wildfire on PAYG close to the price of the San Francisco?

[Guest samjam]

That is not correct, the reviewer, in pretty much all his phone tests, is apparently comparing what is being tested with other phones.

Then you need to read the columns by a couple of their long standing contributors in the current print edition (which I expect will appear on-line in the near future) as they do EXACTLY that.

I understand that to get the phone on a long contract from Orange unwise, but that is still not the point of a smartphone review is it? They should be reviewing the phone! And Jonathan Bray's response that the 'the price is not that different to the competition' is bizarre. Is there anywhere on the high street advertising where you can you get a Wildfire on PAYG close to the price of the San Francisco?

I think he's making excuses, but I also think that there is no way PC-Pro can recommend the SF as Orange ship it as being better than the Wildfire - and much of what he wrote may be a poor attempt to explain or justify that view.

It's the difference between what you would recommend to a friend and what you would recommend to your grandma who will call you in the middle of the night if it's not working right. PC-Pro readers are grandma. The non-grandma's go to the horses mouth are reading this and xda-devs.

I prefer this phone, but I can see why PC-Pro who review a lot of quality and rubbish hand-sets would not rate it compared to the wildfire that I chose not to buy.

(BTW I have a PC-Pro subscription, because I think it's worth some Journalists to trawl the news-sources for me and pick out what I might be interested in).

Anyway, I don't intend to convert you to my view, I just wanted to explain why I thought the review was not unreasonable even though I disagree with the review.

Edited January 5, 2011 by samjam

[Guest Arr Too]

the reviewer thinks it won't last a year. I wonder if he is right, but at £70.00 I took the risk

Apple pretty much expect you to think your phone doesn't last a whole year! And theirs aren't £70 a pop!

[Guest tdodd]

I was curious about the BBC home page load test so I thought I'd try out for myself and compare to some other handy devices. The data connection was WiFi from 6-7' away with an 8Mb/s sync speed. Results....

San Fran with stock B05 ROM, minus Orange crap - best load time = 30 seconds; worst = 42 seconds; I checked CPU usage and the browser used 30 seconds for the page load

Motorola Defy with stock ROM - consistently loaded in 10 seconds;

T-Mobile MDA Vario (HTC Wizard) - 36 seconds from one test result; This thing is over five years old and has a 200 MHz processor. Page formatting was minging, even in "Desktop" mode.

Four year old 2.16GHz dual core Win 7 WUXGA laptop - under 3 seconds in FF 3.6 and IE8. Browser showed 2 CPU seconds used.

I was surprised by the gap in performance between the San Fran and the Defy as the specs on paper do not suggest a threefold performance difference, do they?

Edited January 6, 2011 by tdodd

[Guest DasYad]

Is that the mobile site or desktop site? I always use the mobile site and it loads pretty quick.

[Guest tdodd]

Is that the mobile site or desktop site? I always use the mobile site and it loads pretty quick.

Desktop. The mobile site is quick. There is no way the mobile site should take the 38 seconds reported in the review, but for the desktop site that figure seems very plausible, and very poor.

Edited January 7, 2011 by tdodd

[Guest mark2410]

ive no objections to really anything said in the review with one glaring exception. the talk of the price while it may be true if you are only talking about on contract but who if anyone has bought the blade on contract? the reason its been a great success is that its payg (effectively sim free as easily unlockable) so anyone can buy as a cheap upgrade for payg or to replace their ageing contract phone. how they could completely ignore tha fact its circa £100 which is is far cheaper than things like the wildfire and defy.

if they had just said oh on contract its poor value but on payg its half the price i could accept the review but as it stands it just smacks of extremely lazy reviewing

[Guest cbrpaul]

usual jouno , out of touch and reality writing !!!

[Guest dustofnations]

It is true that the phone only really stands out once you flash an alternative ROM on and enable hw acceleration. Games like Angry Birds were juddery until then for me. In effect it is XTE not providing the resources to polish the ROM, meaning a significant degradation to the end-user experience.

I hope they will update the ROM and implement a few obvious changes, then many of the criticisms levelled by the review will be obsolete.

[Guest cartierv]

The BBC website, even the mobile version is effectively unload-able on my blade.

The mobile versions is not properly 'mobile' at all.

Edited January 7, 2011 by cartierv

[Guest samjam]

The BBC website, even the mobile version is effectively unload-able on my blade.

The mobile versions is not properly 'mobile' at all.

Try "opera mini" (not "opera mobile").

[Guest Mandesk]

I work in IT, have read PC Pro since 1996 (I subscribe to it now), many a Time I have read their reviews in the mag, that do not always make sense or from my own IT experience I do not agree with, but in general it is the best mag out there.

I bought my SF because sooner or later the company I work for will get on the Android bandwagon, (tablets rather than phones as we use Blackberry’s), we have just started to use the iPAD, I was given one form my manager and told, get this working for us.

So I wanted a cheap Android device, looked at all the tablets, both the cheap Chinese ones and things like the Samsung Tab, but could not justify the cost or they did not give me what I wanted. So I went for the SF, not as a phone, as I have a work one, but to teach myself Android as I am going to have to support these type of devices one day.

I could unlock my SF and pop in my work sim, but not sure if the phone will last, yes I have had some lags and freezes, cannot be sure it will not have a problem when I need it most.

Before I bought it I read many forums like this one, and would not take just one magazine review to make my mind up. Other people may, but they should not...

To cap then I bought this device to teach me Android, which at £99 does what I want, but use it as my main phone, maybe not at present, everyone to their own, if you like it use it...and make more people aware of it, like I was always told get 3 quotes before you do anything...

Mandesk.

[Guest stuartmc]

Got my March 2011 PCPro this morning and it has a group test of smartphones from which this is taken. All phones are listed with pay monthly tarrifs and sim-free not PAYG so the SFO is not shown at the actual price most of us paid for it. The SFO is also the only one not listed with a sim-free price. I don't know why they have not listed PAYG prices for those phones available that way. As there is no competition to Orange the price on contract is artificially high. I suspect if it was available through other providers it would be free plus £10 per month and so a value for money winner.

[Guest Thermostat9]

Got my March 2011 PCPro this morning and it has a group test of smartphones from which this is taken. All phones are listed with pay monthly tarrifs and sim-free not PAYG so the SFO is not shown at the actual price most of us paid for it. The SFO is also the only one not listed with a sim-free price. I don't know why they have not listed PAYG prices for those phones available that way. As there is no competition to Orange the price on contract is artificially high. I suspect if it was available through other providers it would be free plus £10 per month and so a value for money winner.

As I've posted on the PCPro page, they have seriously muddled up the phone review with the contract cost. I concluded with '...PCPro is a hardware magazine so next time concentrate on the phones and not the 'contracts' and if you do review contracts (and that would not be a bad idea) only then look at the value of the phones that are being offered.

Again, for readers of the magazine - the OSF is a veritable BARGAIN! The HTC Wildfire is a generation older and will cost you twice as much (currently). By the spring of 2011 I expect this will have all changed again!'

(Have a look at page 98 where they suggest as one of the '53 ways to save money' that you buy a PAYG phone and unlock it....!)