Guest gspacedboy Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 I agree. But Neo was always different, when talking to the Architect, he was more articulate that his predecessors. Also there was the issue that Neo had Love, the love of Trinity, like you said. But the others did not have this. (According to the Architect) This all leaves me thinking that Neo can break the mould that the Architect assumed he could control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adam Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 Additionally, he doesn't seem to be able to control Agent Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gspacedboy Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 Good point, wait what’s my point… oh yeah… What the hell is it with A. Smith? At the beginning he is talking to the other agents, then he is against them… … did anybody notice the Oracle eating a sweet. It was a red pill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ukpauls Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 thats a interesting ob. wonder if that is meant to be something. if it we know that the red pill in the first was a part of a trace program. dont know what the hell this world mean.. :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Monolithix [MVP] Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 If one percent of the population reject's the matrix, thats 60,000,000 potencial enemies... Why does the matrix release them and not just terminate them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ukpauls Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 remember they dont always know who is going to reject it, in the first matrix the agents say we have the name of the next target. and the agents are there to terminate them, but some do get away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gspacedboy Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 I don’t think it even bothers the machines that this 1% escalates that way it does. The confident, cocky character Architect assumes to know and accept it as a consequence of the programme. He thinks he will get them in the end, like he has done before! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adam Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 Will there be six billion people after a war of that magnitude? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adam Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 I don’t think it even bothers the machines that this 1% escalates that way it does. The confident, cocky character Architect assumes to know and accept it as a consequence of the programme. He thinks he will get them in the end, like he has done before! Only Human! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ukpauls Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 Will there be six billion people after a war of that magnitude? what do u mean? the war that "we touched the sky" meaning the world population is smaller. dont forget we are grown (maybe faster than we produce) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adam Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 Yet in the matrix, we only see one city! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ukpauls Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 true but maybe thats the film being american!!! :) we see the mountains in reloaded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest glynton Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 Just something else to back the "Zion is part of the Matrix" theory... A.Smith has now been able to transfer his program into.. what humans regard as the 'Real World' by copying himself into someone in the matrix as they're leaving it. Would this be possible if Zion wasn't part of the matrix? Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akarno Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 I think the real problem is that we have a Kung fu movie trying to be an Ingmar Bergman film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest w0mbat Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 you lot sound to have enjoyed the film, to be honest I was really disappointed. I love the original as it is so different and full of ideas. Reloaded just seemed to be full of what I found to be boring and long winded "slow mo" kung fu like fights which we knew Neo would win. Whats this with him him flying like Superman? The love story with Trinity is starting to get really boring. Finding and using the Keymaker just took too long and seemed to be a padded weak storyline. I wasnt too disappointed when it came to the abrupt end. Shame cos I was really looking forward to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brody Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 you'll be in for some criticism now! each to there own! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Monolithix [MVP] Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 I actually agree with w0mbat. Watch the first Matrix again after seeing the second and you'll realise just how good the first was by comparison. I was completely original, totally unpredicable and amazingly "sharp" and "cool". That is how it became what it is. The second one took Neo's powers far too far, to the point of stupidity (his "superman thing"). It was totally predictable, and was merely far too much high speed kung fu scene moving on to far too much bullet time. Don't get me wrong now, i enjoyed the film and would see it again. I also understand that the original was going to be nigh on impossible to beat in terms of coolness, and that this is just part one of one very long film. It's just a shame that the writers assumed that by making two more hours of the best bits from part 1 it would be a great followup. Roll on part three... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ukpauls Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 i completely disagree with mono and w0mbat, ok i can understand what you are saying about the fight sceens, but that was because they had to set a standard that will be had to reproduce (hence why the almost ran out of money) but i think people miss the point of this story, as it is to set up for the next one. as have you lot not reliesed the amount of theories going around, no one knows what is happening..... And the superman thing is there to make you relise the actually powers that the one has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Monolithix [MVP] Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 I know that they were promoting his powers, i know that they were trying to reproduce the standard, and i said i knew it was the first part of one long film. My point was that it has lost its coolness (and i fully appreciate how difficult it would have been to be better than the first) and become completely predictable. With the first one, it jumps from scene to scene and you have no idea what is going to happen next (sitting in his office after getting a rollocking, next scene his mouth is melting and mechanical bugs burrowing into his belly). The second one you can see the fights coming and know exactly what is going to happen and who is going to win. The second one was too OTT and predicatble. Still impressive, but not a patch on the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adam Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 Maybe the third film will sort this argument out. I think the second needs the third, in a way the second is necessary to set up the third film. And there is the Smith vs Neo fight, and although most films would have Neo win, i'm not so sure. Seeing the remaining humans as fundamentalists is rather disturbing, maybe the future is their world, their time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest w0mbat Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 The effects in the Freeway scene were absolutely brilliant, especially the bike stuff. I suppose I`m just a bit bored of the fighting (dont like Kung Fu movies so maybe thats it). I just felt that with Mr Smith developing his powers and this talk about agents being upgraded, the action could have changed. The first movie was all about the freedom and speed of movement in the Matrix (and how to use it!), the second was purely, "well the fighting went down well in the first,lets do it with more people!". What was supposed to replace the WOW of seeing "Bullet Time" in action for the first time? Even the twins (who I thought were good) fought hand to hand. Surely there are other ways to show Neo overcoming the agents? I rewatched the matrix on the evening before I saw reloaded. Maybe it wouldnt have been quite such a let down if my memories of the first film hadnt been so fresh in my mind. As Brody said, "each to their own". It would be a boring world if we all had the same opinions and tastes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Monolithix [MVP] Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 Exactly what i've been saying w0mbat :) All those that aren't convinced. Sit down tonight and watch the first Matrix again and you might get some idea of what we are saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gspacedboy Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 "You already know the answers, your here to try to undertand them!" I totally agree with wOmbat. The action was really predictable. We all knew that Neo was about to fight, we all knew he would win. But the best thing about this is that there is so much more to these films than fist fights, bullet time and all that. Its so much more...Quote "It's about matters of the heart, about belief, about overthrowing systems, about cause and effect, about the pilosophies of an examined life, about a compassionate society, a compassionate cosciousness. It's in every badword frame of it. What people tend to look at is the guns and action sequences... "They (the Wachowskies) are pushing how we see things, literally how we see things, and then asking questions of how we see things,why we do what we do and who we are. So much of the piece is about choice. You have a choice. Who are you gonna be? How are we gonna be? What are we gonna be?" Keanu Reeves / Empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brody Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 Nice quote gspacedboy, i thought when i started this topic that it might take off!! :wink: At the end of the day there will be a big twist in the third film that i don't think any of us can accurately predict, speculation is obvious as the film is so popular and has an interesting storyline. I think that Zion is also part of the matrix as there is no other explanation for Neo being able to stop the centinalls and for the Oracle's disk being brought back into Zion as well as Agent Smith coming out of the matrix. But this is just what i think, still, keep talking because there are soooo many possible theories that who knows, maybe one of us will get it right!!? As for the wow factor of bullet time being replicated, i heard the producer Joel Silver say that the Wachowski brothers were fed up of people replicating the bullet time effect and therefore wanted to fill a film with action that could not be replicated as a result of the scale of the stunts etc. I don't think that anyone can begrudge this, we were never gonna see a development as large as bullet time replicated but the car chase was amazing!! (Did anyone notice that the when Trinity was riding the bike the wrong way down the motorway the bike couldn't out run the cars?? A little unrealistic i'm afraid!!) Roll on November... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adam Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 Weren't the cars on the other side of the motorway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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