Sendo announces legal action against Orange over SPV

[Guest Big Ron - No Longer a Mem]

Latest news - which includes some useful clarification and a few new facts (from an "exclusive interview" with Sendo) Looks like Sendo are seeking an injunction to block SPV sales. And "getting an injunction" is a quite different matter to a full-blown court case. One can take days... the other can take years.

[http://www.newswireless.net/articles/030605-law.html]

Following the breakdown of talks between Sendo and Orange, Sendo has applied for a High Court injunction to prevent sales of the smartphone. And this will very probably apply to anybody else who sells the SPV - and the "Tanager" based SPV-x - in any country in the world.

Brogan has emphasised that he does not want lawsuits. "We'd rather resolve things amicably," he said, "But we have a patent on the circuit board in the SPV, and it has been applied for in many jurisdictions," he told NewsWireless.Net in an exclusive interview this afternoon. "We will defend our intellectual property in any jurisdiction where we can't come to amicable arrangements."

Talks with Orange have been going on since Sendo sued Microsoft.

"Essentially, the design of circuit board in the Sendo phone reduces both cost and size of the board; it's a novel invention, and it has been patented," Brogan said. "The board in the SPV breaches that patent, according to our patent agent."

This could easily frighten the people Microsoft is most anxious to woo; the big mobile phone operators on one hand, and big corporates considering using Microsoft smartphone designs on the other.

That, of course, would be Sendo's plan. But, according to some, it might backfire on Sendo. "Sendo is launching its own Series 60 smartphone; so it's a difficult to see this paying dividends. It might frighten other operators," commented Andy Buss at Canalys.

Brogan's view is simpler: "If you have intellectual property and you don't take steps to defend it, in court if necessary, then you can lose it," he said. "We asked Orange to withdraw it, they refused. We then made a commercial proposal, which they haven't responded to; as a consequence of that, we have no choice but to take legal action."

The action is bound to cause speculation about whether a similar "commercial proposal" might have been made to another carrier, T-Mobile - which recently announced that it was postponing the launch of the Tanager in the US. No reason was give for the delay apart from "concerns about reliability."

Sources close to Brogan have indicated, however, that while he doesn't rule out discussions of this nature with other carriers in other jurisdictions, there have been no such negotiations with T-Mobile - so far.

But the blow to Microsoft could be severe. Its credibility in the smartphone market is still to be established, while its rival, Symbian, is being praised for getting things right. Just at the point where several big carriers are being asked to take it seriously, a reminder of the lawsuit and a suggestion that there are genuine legal risks involved in going the Redmond way, is not going to help.

Brogan certainly appears to think this is an issue: "When we filed our original complaints against Microsoft, we mentioned that one of the problems was that changes required for specific operators were not supported by Microsoft," he said.

These days, phone operators have special services they want to sell to users, and they need a phone which supports these network-specific extras. "We had issues about making a carrier grade product, and getting specific changes for specific operators," said Brogan today. "They weren't done."

The "Tanager" successor to the SPV is slightly different, but Brogan expects to discover that it breaches the same patent. "We haven't seen the new phone yet, but we will be getting one and showing it to our patent agent; and if it does breach the patent, we will defend it."

[Guest avowkind]

OK I am late into this thread but I have a few comments.

I worked at Sendo as a senior software engineer from 1998 when the company was formed up to 2000 . I worked on the Z100 project from its inception. I left to go back to freelancing a year before the project was canned and the lawsuits started - although I have since done some contract work for them.

Hugh Brogan is an industry insider. He worked for Philips and also started Sensei. when I was interviewed in '98 he was already talking about a Microsoft deal and a windows phone. I was recruited specifically for my WinCE, UI and driver skills. He was aware that this would mean breaking ranks with the GSM cartel but at that stage they were not going to let a new startup break into the industry anyway.

As a matter of policy Sendo were patenting all innovations in sight.

Are the individual codeface guys at MS OK? they sure are. Were there issues with working with MS as a corporate body - there sure was. Stuff like not being able to get OS bugs fixed or acknowledged, lack of documentation and finding people who know whats going on. - but to be honest we felt that was par for the course. It is true that the major release date slippages came from the OS not being up to shipping standard.

Have HTC used any Sendo design innovations? I don't know. All I can say is that the hw and radio engineers had built a pcb that performed significantly better than the MS board and also that Sendo on the GSM code side had made several improvements to the stack and made adjustments that made the GSM side of the phone co-exist better with the Wince OS.

So the engineers were rather surprised to find that the HTC was market ready before the Z100. I was surprised that Sendo chose to go the legal route. I think the Z100 could have competed effectively against the SPV - at least technically.

Andrew

[Guest Big Ron - No Longer a Mem]

Given that Sendo's taking out an injunction, Orange's quarter-page advert in last night's local paper looks either brave or a measure of desperation - they plan to have people in the shopping centre "demonstrating" the SPV. Given that orange is supposed to be out of stock... that looks a little strange (maybe they coralled all the remaining stocks to unload them through a "big push" in one go before the injunction bites?)

Andrew - in an interview with the Enquirer (not my first choice for 101% reliablity of accurate information) they state that Sendo "off the record" claim that they re-wrote chunks of code because Microsoft wouldn't or couldn't. Any comments?

[Guest Rustyk1]

i like your theories, lol. I'm almost certain that microsoft wouldn't have been able to write code for a mobile phone. When you look at the amazing feats they have accomplished, im sure a phone wouldnt stop them. Maybe they wouldn't, but why?

Rustyk

[Guest Rustyk1]

i think i was a little unclear in my last post. Im sure microsoft are able to write almost any code so a phone would not stop them. Why would they not want to write code?

Rustyk

[Guest Big Ron - No Longer a Mem]

"i think i was a little unclear in my last post. Im sure microsoft are able to write almost any code so a phone would not stop them. Why would they not want to write code?"

The whole point of the Smartphone (from MS's viewpoint) is that it gets Windows onto phones. They OWN Windows. Windows is a STANDARD that they control. Start letting handset developers make changes (or demand that MS makes changes) and... where will it all end? Five different developers, each with their OWN (slightly different) versions of Windows for Smartphones? Symbian CAN let that happen - if it's "interoperable" within accteptable margins, then it's permissible. But NOT with Windows. That HAS to remain inviolable, or the whole project loses its point - Microsoft gains entry to a market... but WITHOUT controlling its own proprietary standard. Control of that standard is FAR more important than lesser concerns - like a product that actually WORKS. And if it *doesn't* work, then covering it up is often far cheaper than rewriting it. I refer you the unusual feature in MS DOS 6.X's "CHKDSK/f" command. It trashed 200 megabyte hard drives. Did Redmond fix the problem? No. What they did was buy-in and supply an alternative program (Scandisk) and change CHKDSK so that when you loaded it you got a paean to the advantages of using Scandisk instead. No warnings that "using this program can irrecoverably wipe your hard drive", just a "Why not use Scandisk instead - it's MUCH better!?" Microsoft explained that they DID issue a warning. Problem was, the "warning" was tucked away in an FAQ on their Compuserve site, back in the days long before the Internet was connected to most households. Fixing the problem might have drawn attention to the fact that there WAS a problem - and with it might well have followed a plague of lawsuits (despite the yellow-dog end user license agreement, which makes Microsoft responsible for absolutely nothing, even in the case of wilful negligence) The "warning" was so well hidden that it was 18 months before anyone noticed it! So, in THAT instance the answer to "why not write code?" was "What, and admit that we screwed up the first time?"

[Guest avowkind]

At the point where I left Sendo, we had not re-written any operating system code - Sendo couldn't as they were not allowed access to the WinCE Source except in a locked room in Redmond. Like any other OED they had to write drivers for their specific hardware and they could write as much application level code as they wanted.

I have to say that although it makes life difficult for the trailblazers this is IMO really how it _has_ to be done. As an application developer I have enough trouble with the different WinCE platforms without having any underlying parts of the OS working differently. But I don't think Sendo wanted to _change_ the OS. They wanted to have ways to integrate Network Operator branding and differentiation into the product - and they wanted this because thats what their customers wanted.

The Smartphone is a massive co-operative effort. You have the original ARM7 chipset being developed into a chip with an added DSP by TI specifically for Cellphones. TI developed the DSP code for the really nasty GSM signal management. Sendo then bought the GSM Stack from Condat (in Berlin) and used it for their first phone the D800. They put a huge effort into improving the Layer 1 as this most affects speed, reception, sound, reliability and battery life. IMO the D800 was like many first attempts overengineered and thus a very good phone for the money. I still use mine.

Modifications to the GSM stack - and there were many were fed back to Condat and there was some sort of cross investment between the two companies.

TI then designed the OMAP architecture with a second (or third if you include the DSP) processor. The ARM7 is used to run the GSM stack and the ARM9 is used to run an OS - either WinCE, Symbian or Linux if you wanted.

As different OEDs might have different GSM stack software running on the ARM7 it would be up to them to write the drivers that link the OS to the GSM side - although TI provided prototype code, I wrote this layer for the Z100. MS had access to this code and it wouldn't be too hard to tell it was used by HTC. however if HTC are not using the CONDAT GSM stack then it wouldn't be relevant.

I also wrote a neat system that allowed diagnostic info such as cell and layer 1 stats to be passed as XML to the OS and displayed using a simple XSLT + browser. This would also allow Over the Air interrogation of the diagnostic values. That was cool but I guess now extinct.

We even had a mode whereby you could boot the phone with just the GSM modem running - no Windows, and use all the GSM AT commands available rather than just the FCLASS commands that the WinCE interpreter provides.

Sendo also put a lot of effort into rewriting the layer 1 for GPRS. I should stress that at the time this was a cooperative effort between Condat, TI, and Sendo. Microsoft as far as I know never got seriously into writing GSM side code - its a very specialist subject.

So can you see that there is a conflict between individual companies maintaining their own IP and all the developers working together to try an reach the goal - which is a good working product. whilst everyone is friendly there is no problem Its a non zero sum game. But if someone cheats then the other players will understandably get rather upset.

Final point

Laying out a microprocessor PCB like that in the iPAQ requires a certain level of skill - but these skill exist all over the electronics industry. Laying out a radio PCB has much more stringent requirements on power, crosstalk etc. These are much more sophisticated skills and much rarer. Sendo did put a lot of effort into this and I am sure that there were innovative techniques used. Unlike the software which is a patchwork of code from different companies, Sendo can be fairly clear if they feel that the design has been recycled.

Andrew

----------------------------------------------------

Andrew Watkins - Newland Software ltd.

<http://www.cix.co.uk/~andwat>

Smartphone, Pocket PC & Embedded Systems Software Development,

Clients include: Orange, Sendo, Mobix, Mobisoft, Picsel

Available very soon for new projects.

[Guest Pagemakers]

Shame, the Z100 looked the best SM2002 by far!

[Guest DamianJauregui]

avowkind,

any idea why they don't shoehorn SM2002 in to a smaller form factor? I would love something like the size of the new Sendo S550 with SM2002 but everyone produces massive things instead. :lol:

Damian.

[Guest midnight]

any idea why they don't shoehorn SM2002 in to a smaller form factor? I would love something like the size of the new Sendo S550 with SM2002 but everyone produces massive things instead.  

i would think its cos the smartphone display (176 x 220 - 65k colours) is so much bigger than that of the M550 (128 x 128 - 4096 colours) (not that colours affect size, just wanted to make a point hehe)

in fact, besides the length of the thing there aint that much difference between the spv and the m550, and dont forget the m550 is a flip phone....

SPV 115mm x 46mm x 22mm

M550 82mm x 45mm x 20mm

errr, anyways, thats a little off-topic (was only replying, honest guv'nor)

[Guest avowkind]

Why isn't the SPV smaller ?

1. the larger screen size.

2. the much higher battery requirements hence quite a big battery for modern phones.

3. space for SD card slot. IR, headset jack, bottom connector etc.

4. space for beefy speaker

5. internal antenna.

6. but mostly the battery.

Z100 was about the same height and width as the SPV but noticably thinner.

There is the issue with the keyboard. on some modern phones the keys are really very small - as most people only use them for a few phone numbers. The Smartphone has to have realistically usable keys.

My suggestion was to put the keyboard above the lcd so that you could type with your thumb and hold the screen in the palm of your hand - This was rejected as being too radical but I did play with a version that turned the screen and keys upside down. I don't think Sendo patented that idea so now its in the public domain.

Andrew

[Guest midnight]

errr, wouldnt your hand get in the way of the screen???? and isnt the whole point of phones to allow single handed use?

i think n*kia got it half right with the 7650, a hideable keypad, but you can still use the joypad/joystick

[Guest avowkind]

No, try it, turn your SPV upside down and hold it in the curl of your fingers so that you can reach the keys with your thumb. the screen is perfectly visible and the phone is better balanced.

As i said - too radical.

Andrew

[Guest awarner [MVP]]

Just tried it and as I reached for the keys on the farside my hand was part blocking the screen

[Guest Rob.P]

avowkind, your right too radical, I like it though.

[Guest axe]

avowkind : i like it indeed ... but my hands are not so big so it kinda works for me, i can imagine if my hands were any bigger i would be covering up the screen .... ..

[Guest Cypher83]

I don't think that T-Mobile (!) or any of the other carriers are selling it under their own Carrier Brand name are they? Not sure, but selling the phone as the "SPV E100" should distance them enough from any potential claims of Intellectual Property infringment, leaving the only claim against HTC/MS.

I think :lol:

V

I have been advised of an almost identical looking phone due to be released some time next year by O2...will let you know more when I find the link again but I don't think that will go ahead in a hurry eh. :D

[Guest morpheus2702]

Do a search for the XPhone mate - based on the Voyager E200 design! :wink:

[Guest thornton]

Returning to the subject of the thread for a moment, it appears that Sendo in fact dropped its suit against Orange within about a month and a half of this story first breaking.

See the article here.

[Guest Preacher]

Ok, Ok, Ok; so Sendo sue Orange, HTC and Microsoft. They had better ensure they don't think of detaching me from my E200 or there will be hell to pay :lol: