Mr O CAN YOU PLEASE TELL US ??

[Guest benzo]

I agree with Mantrac to a certain degree.

I do think the SPV is a great phone. After two updates, it functions flawlessly.

But the e200 is far too bug ridden. After the SPV's teething problems, you would have that that O would have learnt a valuable lesson. Obviously not.

I'll wait for Moto mpx220 to come out- Moto are an established phone producing company, unlike O and HTC (I don't think they could arrange a piss up in a brewery!).

Benzo

[Guest thornton]

Right: I have now received some news from a technical query I submitted to the Orange website. It appears to be bad news: namely that there is NEVER going to be a backup and restore tool released by Orange to use with the 1.6.1 update. However, I have some doubts as to its accuracy because (a) Mr Orange had previously told us (on Christmas Eve) that he HAD a copy of the the backup tool in his possession and (:) a backup tool HAS been released to Orange customers in France. However, since this is the first news of any sort from Orange that I know of on this subject since "the week commencing 15 December", I will reproduce the correspondence here so that everyone can read it:

MY QUERY:

"I own an original SPV. I have been waiting to update its operating system to version 1.6.1 for some time now. Although the update itself have been available since 10 December 2003 (from http://www.orange.com/English/forwardthink...update2003.asp) that web page mentions a 'Backup and Restore tool' that will allow me to protect my data and ensure that it is still accessible on my SPV following the update. That web page says that the tool would be made available online from 'the week commencing 15 December 2003', and recommends that customers wait for that tool before performing the upgrade. Sadly, it is still not available as of today (12/1/04), although the web page STILL promises it for 'the week commencing 15 December 2003'. This is now becoming very frustrating indeed, because (a) I still have no backup tool, and hence I am still waiting to do the update and (:D Orange's website is now woefully out of date and I can get no information whatsoever as to when this backup !

tool will finally be made available.

Can someone authoritative please tell me what is going on and when I might expect this software to be ready?"

ORANGE CUSTOMER SERVICES TECH SUPPORT REPLY:

"Dear Philip

Thank you for your mail.

This is an error on the Website there will be no 'Tool' available, but as long as you have used Orange Backup you will be ok to go ahead and perform the 'update'.

This has been fed back to the relevant department and the website will be amended shortly.

I hope the above has been of some assistance to you.

Kind regards

Shelly

Orange Customer Services"

[Guest Paul [MVP]]

What scary misinformation by OCS!

P

[Guest thornton]

Rather entertainingly, further to Shelly's promise that "the website will be amended shortly", they have indeed amended it, incompetently.

As of the time of this post, the address of the page from which the 1.6.1. update itself can be updated has now changed to

http://www.orange.com/English/productsands...update20032.asp

(it used to be at http://www.orange.com/English/forwardthink...vupdate2003.asp)

As you will note from perusing the new download page, whilst the first reference to "week commencing 15 December 2003" has been removed, the second one remains intact(!):

Will I lose my data when I upgrade?  

Yes, you will lose all of your personal data and settings during this upgrade. This is why Orange has developed the Backup and Restore tool. Unfortunately, this is not currently ready, but will be available on this site from the week commencing 15 December 2003. If you wish, you can wait until this time to perform your Upgrade, and protect the data you hold on your SPV or SPV E100

This really is descending into farce now.

Furthermore, it would now seem to be the case that whilst the French already have a backup/restore tool, and the Swiss appear still to be being promised one, us Brits are to be denied it.

Why?

[Guest drblow]

Will Mr. O ever actually reply to this post??

Realistically at this stage, am I the only person here who feels that Mr. Orange's prescence on the forum has become more of a frustrating hinderance, than any kind of actual help??

I reiterate again in reference to some of the posts above - Orange is a COMMUNICATION COMPANY, Mr. O's arrival here last year was heralded as a new breakthru in COMMUNICATION with Orange. Since that time, the amount of requests for information from Mr. O that have gone ignored is ridiculous. I definately feel that the prescence of Mr. O has resulted in a downturn in opinion about Orange. The total failure to COMMUNICATE has left me, for one, feeling that Orange are totally disinterested in sorting out bugs with smartphones - and that Mr. Orange seems to think that ignoring people is a better way of dealing with a problem than addressing it - even if there is no solution to a particular problem, COMMUNICATION would go a long way towards making people feel that Orange IS interested, IS capable of dealing with problems, & IS trying to help.

The situation at present is a total mish-mash of misinformation from OCS, tech support, & blatant rumour on the forum.

To summarise - if Mr. Orange would even occassionally update the forum on the status of these kind of situations that would result in less customer frustration at Orange. So far, the introduction of "official" representation from Orange at this forum has totally failed, IMHO. & anyone who says stuff about "what could Mr. O do?" is totally missing the point. If the guy came on here & said there was nothing anyone can do to sort out a problem, that would still be a better result for me than being ignored. At the end of the day, it is COMMUNICATION that counts.

[Guest morpheus2702]

"]What scary misinformation by OCS!

P

Paul, why so quick to dismiss this as being wrong? This could quite easily be the reality of the situation.

Blow, you have hit the situation with Mr Orange on the head. Amazing how a MONTH down the line and no sign of the back up tool has Mr O responded in nothing but private messages, cryptic nuances and conditional terms.

How about re-instating that poll of what people thought of Mr Orange's effective in the forum? Yes, the one that was removed pretty quick too. I think it should be a matter of record what people think or have thought of his participation on MoDaCo. :?:

Or as normal, are we to be told that we should be grateful for what we get, that as an O employee he can't tell us that much, that he doesn't like posting incorrect information, that he can selectively reply to posts that make him look good/bad or the other litany of BS that we have had since Mr O joined?

[Guest Paul [MVP]]

Paul, why so quick to dismiss this as being wrong? This could quite easily be the reality of the situation.

I know the guys who developed the utility, the moderation team have helped test the utility, so I think we can assume it'll be available very soon!

P

[Guest morpheus2702]

Hmm, there is a saying about assumption isn't there?

[Guest drblow]

He doesnt really seem to be around much anymore ... maybe it's not just me & morpheus that feel the situation has somewhat backfired??!! :)

[Guest monty1]

Im with you Dr Blow !!! . Orange have been "testing" this utility since before Christmas .if it worked properly we would have it by now. This would suggest there is a problem. The silence of Mr Orange seems to bear this out . I emailed Orange technical support Yesterday and so far there has been no reply . seems to be the orange way .......if it goes wrong orange go all quiet !

Keep the pressure up

[Guest drblow]

You know, I'd love to find out exactly what percentage of smartphone users is made up by people who use this forum (or others)!?

If it is only a small amount, then sure, you can understand why Orange just ignore us ... but if there is a significant amount of smartphone users (& orange customers obv) that are represented on this forum (which I SUSPECT to be true, otherwise why waste the time of a "head" of dept in an official role here) then how come nobody at Orange has realised the situation here??

Surely there must be other Orange cheese that look at the forum? They couldn't just let one person take responsibilty for making official posts here, & have nobody ever even look at them, or review them from the company's perspective!?

So, surely there must be at least 1 other person at Orange who has seen the devastatingly poor performance by Mr. O, & the plumeting customer perception of the company as a result?? & surely there must equally be at least 1 person who has the wit to see that Orange's customer perception is just about rock bottom!!??

I mean, in todays "marketing" driven world (especially the technology market) there must be someone in a company the size of Orange that thinks, "hold on ... people think we're crap"??

I mean, OK - I doubt that many people have actually cancelled contracts, or switched networks because of Orange's total incompetence in the smartphone arena, but, I mean, I've had 4 replacement e200's (I forget how many SPV/e100 replacements I had, but it was at least 5!). Surely the economics of that must have some kind of impact? Or do Orange get the handsets so cheap, they can afford to replace every single one 10 times in a year without suffering any drop in revenue?? & can afford to keep in place a customer helpline which must be literally inundated with problems?? & given that the e200 itself is only available on Orange ATM, does the company really think that ANYBODY would stay with them if its available on other networks??

It's just strange, I think, that a company in todays technology market can take such a negligent view of its customers. I mean, we didn't ASK Mr. O to come here - he was "sent" here by Orange - and one can only assume that was because some Orange cheese decided that with the growth of the smartphone web community, they felt they should really have a prescence. So what is the point in a company the size of Orange doing this, when it seems to have been a total PR disaster?? I mean, especially when you consider that all Mr. O ever had to do was communicate information to people. This whole thing of "I don't want to post wrong info" & all - I mean, come on! All anybody ever wanted from Mr. O was some communication. Whether the answer to questions was "no we can't" or "I'm not sure, I'll get back to ya", or even "sorry m8, can't say anything about that right now". I for one would have been only too happy to have recieved answers like this! Nobody ever expected Mr. O to suddenly have all the right answers all the time, but the actual communication itself would have made Modaco users feel that they DO indeed have a better relationship with Orange, & I definately think that if it had been handled better, Orange could have easily made themselves THE premier network for smartphones. I mean, how many people here could live without Modaco, eh?? :wink:

OK - enough ranting ... I feel as if I'm trying to explain basic marketing/PR principles to a child ... which is what confuses me about the whole situation. Surely there must be 1 person in Orange who did a marketing degree?? Or even business studies at school? :)

[Guest legalbeagle]

...  because i,m 1 very angry orange ex-customer  :evil:  :evil:  :evil: waiting to update his SPV ready to sell it on and purchase a phone that can do the job that Oranges SPV says it can ?  but it can,t.  

:evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:

I thought this was interesting. The update was made available for customers of Orange, by Orange, at Orange's expense. I am sure that somewhere in the terms of the update you promise that you are a customer of Orange, or suchlike.

As an ex-customer of Orange, what right do you have to access, download and use the updated software, much less complain about the timing of delivery?

[Guest drblow]

He has the "right" as you put it, because, as I understand it, the guy is trying to sell on his old phone which WAS an Orange phone. Just because someone makes a choice to later on move to another network, that doesnt mean they suddenly lose the right to support for another product they have which IS from said company.

Understandably, he is trying to offer his old phone for sale with the most up to date software etc, to get the best possible price for it (I assume, please correct me if I'm wrong). There is nothing either untoward or unreasonable about that. He is still considered to be an Orange customer for the SPV he is trying to sell on & has EVERY right to access & download the software - and also every right to complain about the delivery timing, as you put it.

& to correct you, the software in question is the backup tool, not the update - it HAS NOT been released.

& I mean, of course the update was done at Orange's expense - who do you think's gonna pay for it?? & what, you think we should be oh so thankful that Orange did it at their expense?? What, do you think we should be glad theyre not charging us??

I just don't get this!! I totally fail to understand why other users come on these threads & complain about people complaining. Do you seriously think that Orange has acted reasonably in this matter? Do you think its OK for them to post on their own website advice along the lines of "we encourage you NOT to use the update until the BACKUP TOOL is released on 15th Dec", and then leave us sitting here on the 15th of Jan without any information at all? You call that good service do ya!?

& anyway, the title of the thread is addressing Mr. Orange, looking for some info about this problem. Do you also think it's acceptable for customers to be still sitting here a month later debating as to whether or not Mr. O is ever going to respond??

If the answer to any of the abovew questions is "yes", please PM me, I have a company that offers a wide range of absolutely terrible services, & I think you are my ideal customer!! :twisted:

[Guest Monolithix [MVP]]

Wow drblow, those posts are almost enough to put Big Ron's to shame ;p

In slight defence to Mr Orange, don't forget he's here in an official capacity only, and most people take a 2 week holiday over the Christmas period. Might explain his being quiet... :)

[Guest Mr Orange]

The Backup & Restore Tool is now available here :-

Backup & Restore

Sorry about the delay.

[Guest benwatt]

Heh - just when you think another week with no backup tool has past, and here it is.

Thanks Mr Orange, you have redeemed yourself for the moment :)

[Guest drblow]

Wow drblow, those posts are almost enough to put Big Ron's to shame ;p

:) :D

Thankyou! Thats tribute enough!! :lol:

I'm not trying to be offensive or anything (well, not much!), just telling it how I see it! Man of the people, see ...

[Guest drblow]

:) :D

Thankyou! Thats tribute enough!! :lol:

I'm not trying to be offensive or anything (well, not much!), just telling it how I see it! Man of the people, see ...

EDIT : I suppose I should've added well done Mr. O for posting that ... & I would never be so churlish as to say "about goddamn time" or anything. :shock: Is this the beginning of a new dawn?? :wink:

[Guest drblow]

em ... :roll: