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what for and why do OMNIA 2 reserved 50% of it RAM?

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I've found out something real strange..

If you check your RAM under Samsung Memory Interface, you will see 256MB of RAM. However if you check the ram under the default Windows Memory, it shows only 139.20MB.

I think Samsung cheated us with their interface. Since interface can be edited, they might have done something to the interface, making it shows 256MB of RAM, but only 140MB have been installed.

Same to Main Memory, under Samsung Interface it shows 512MB... Try do a check using the default memory utility from WM, you will notice that it is lower than 512MB.

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I've found out something real strange..

If you check your RAM under Samsung Memory Interface, you will see 256MB of RAM. However if you check the ram under the default Windows Memory, it shows only 139.20MB.

I think Samsung cheated us with their interface. Since interface can be edited, they might have done something to the interface, making it shows 256MB of RAM, but only 140MB have been installed.

Same to Main Memory, under Samsung Interface it shows 512MB... Try do a check using the default memory utility from WM, you will notice that it is lower than 512MB.

That's nothing strange.... the portion missing is what Samsung 'reserved' for its own use, and that's what this thread is about. I don't think there is any double that Samsung did not in fact install 256MB ram in the unit, otherwise it is very easy to tell as there are already a lot of people who have taken their i8000 apart and see the ram hardware.

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I forget where the post is, but I remember someone getting a reply from someone at Samsung, regarding this issue. They claim that there is a set amount of ram reserved for the phone portion of the device. I assume to ensure proper phone operation at any given time, regardless of however you happen to be using the device. This would make sense, as it is a phone and should function properly as one. However, the issue is with the marketing. If they market it with x amount of ram, it should have x amount of ram available for program use. It's telling a lie, that's "technically" not a lie. And that's what I personally have a problem with. Thanks for the tips those who've provided them. I'm about to try them out. But I currently have over 70 mb available at boot anyways and memory hasn't been an issue. Only when I try to run a music app and copilot at the same time do I ever get an automatic closing.

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I assume to ensure proper phone operation at any given time

the whole phone functions is controlled via the windows mobile os, now the reality we have here, the os cannot see the rest of the RAM other than around 140MB we're all seeing on wm memory application.

So now, how can the os can utilize something it cannot see/recognize to make use of it to ensure proper phone operation? lol...

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I have no idea. Can you allocate ram much like you can allocate a disk drive? If so, then a certain part of the ram is allocated outside of where windows expects to see it. That's probably a very dumbed down explanation of how I understand it. A copy of the post I was referencing is below, maybe it will help make sense of the situation.

I wrote Samsung to see what they say about the 512mb flash and 208mb ram. This is their response:

Dear Tony,

Thank you for your inquiry. The SCH-I920 comes with the following specifications, however keep in mind some of the available smemory is used by preinstalled applications etc.

Phone System

•ROM: 512MB

•RAM: 64MB

PDA System

•ROM: 512MB

•RAM: 64MB

User Internal Memory: Up To 150MB

Your continued interest in Samsung products is appreciated.

Sincerely,

Technical Support

Edited by Snow02

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I have no idea. Can you allocate ram much like you can allocate a disk drive? If so, then a certain part of the ram is allocated outside of where windows expects to see it. That's probably a very dumbed down explanation of how I understand it. A copy of the post I was referencing is below, maybe it will help make sense of the situation.

I wrote Samsung to see what they say about the 512mb flash and 208mb ram. This is their response:

Dear Tony,

Thank you for your inquiry. The SCH-I920 comes with the following specifications, however keep in mind some of the available smemory is used by preinstalled applications etc.

Phone System

•ROM: 512MB

•RAM: 64MB

PDA System

•ROM: 512MB

•RAM: 64MB

User Internal Memory: Up To 150MB

Your continued interest in Samsung products is appreciated.

Sincerely,

Technical Support

that answer is even more disturbing lol, yuo could sue them with that answer since that's practically they're admitting that the phone only have 128MB of RAM total on contrary with their advertising...hahahah.....

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that answer is even more disturbing lol, yuo could sue them with that answer since that's practically they're admitting that the phone only have 128MB of RAM total on contrary with their advertising...hahahah.....

Except that the answer makes no sense at all, since on the 920 (I have one) total ram is shown to be 140MB, just like the i8000. I have all the identical numbers and issues regarding RAM as the 8000 guys (around 60MB free after boot has finished, with MS3 and a few other apps running).

So I can't make any sense out of those RAM figures from tech support for the 920. They appear completely meaningless.

BTW, as I've mentioned elsewhere -- in this thread too -- a way to recover around 5-10MB of RAM if you're using a custom shell and NOT Today is to disable it -- HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Today\Enabled -> 0 -- and the OS will not load and start today, but instead boot straight to your shell.

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Except that the answer makes no sense at all, since on the 920 (I have one) total ram is shown to be 140MB, just like the i8000. I have all the identical numbers and issues regarding RAM as the 8000 guys (around 60MB free after boot has finished, with MS3 and a few other apps running).

So I can't make any sense out of those RAM figures from tech support for the 920. They appear completely meaningless.

BTW, as I've mentioned elsewhere -- in this thread too -- a way to recover around 5-10MB of RAM if you're using a custom shell and NOT Today is to disable it -- HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Today\Enabled -> 0 -- and the OS will not load and start today, but instead boot straight to your shell.

This is really messed up. I have the i920 as well and have to replace rom files with fake Okb files, disable MS Today, and a lot of other unnecessary little tweaks JUST to keep my Ram close to 50mb! What the hell is going on here???

Hopefully someone will figure this mystery out, because I know I can't.

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so what this means is its impossible to get the rest of the ram free. 64mb is reserved for the radio chipset which doesnt contain its own ram,so system ram is used instead.140mb(which we have now)+64mb(reserved for radio) = 204MB. the rest is reserved for the OS i guess. this makes total sense since on my htc touch pro, which has 256MB, it says windows mobile has 203mb. the touch pro radio has its own ram,as the qualcomm chipset docs show. i guess thats the end of speculation.

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HKLM\System\OOM

cbLow = 32768

cbVlow=32768

cpLow=16

cpVlow=16

For those that may be uncomfortable with registry editing, I put these registry changes in a cab for easy installation. I found they definitely helped prevent apps from auto-closing.

Mem_Settings.cab

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It does make sense that some part of the RAM is reserved for the "phone part" but i think that memory must then be somehow mapped to the radio chipset, bypassing the OS. (i think some of you mentioned that windows itself doesn't show the advertised amount of memory, only Samsung's own app does?). I'm sure the device contains 256 MB of RAM but what value do those numbers have if they're being abused like they are now? That's like saying my PC has 4 GB of RAM when in fact it has 3 GB of actual RAM and 1 GB of video memory on the gfx card.

The good news is that I found out that while apps are running in the background (or the device is locked) and apps start closing, they receive a WM_CLOSE message. Applications are free the ignore this message but the default behavior of this window messages is to proceed destroying the application's window. So to test what happens when an app explicitly ignores a WM_CLOSE message i made an app that does just that. While other applications got closed my app got the WM_CLOSE message but ignored it. I was expecting that the phone would just kill the process eventually but that didn't happen.

The WM_CLOSE message also made me think that only Samsung is the one to blame here, since Windows Mobile will send a WM_HIBERNATE message to applications (asking them to free as much memory as possible) when the amount of free RAM is below a certain level. But i never got a WM_HIBERNATE message (which probably means the system wasn't that low on RAM anyway, which is also confirmed by the Samsung application that usually shows around ~35 MB of free RAM when it starts closing stuff).

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But Omnia2 also use Qualcomm chipset for Radio part too!!!

do you know which qualcomm chipset is in the omnia2? because i can check the documentation.

It does make sense that some part of the RAM is reserved for the "phone part" but i think that memory must then be somehow mapped to the radio chipset, bypassing the OS. (i think some of you mentioned that windows itself doesn't show the advertised amount of memory, only Samsung's own app does?). I'm sure the device contains 256 MB of RAM but what value do those numbers have if they're being abused like they are now? That's like saying my PC has 4 GB of RAM when in fact it has 3 GB of actual RAM and 1 GB of video memory on the gfx card.

The good news is that I found out that while apps are running in the background (or the device is locked) and apps start closing, they receive a WM_CLOSE message. Applications are free the ignore this message but the default behavior of this window messages is to proceed destroying the application's window. So to test what happens when an app explicitly ignores a WM_CLOSE message i made an app that does just that. While other applications got closed my app got the WM_CLOSE message but ignored it. I was expecting that the phone would just kill the process eventually but that didn't happen.

The WM_CLOSE message also made me think that only Samsung is the one to blame here, since Windows Mobile will send a WM_HIBERNATE message to applications (asking them to free as much memory as possible) when the amount of free RAM is below a certain level. But i never got a WM_HIBERNATE message (which probably means the system wasn't that low on RAM anyway, which is also confirmed by the Samsung application that usually shows around ~35 MB of free RAM when it starts closing stuff).

in gwes.exe theres a critical ram value hard coded in there. after the ram reaches that value, every OEM have their own script to do whatever they want to do. in case of samsung, they chose to close the apps with WM_CLOSE. i know my htc devices send the WM_HIBERNATE.

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in gwes.exe theres a critical ram value hard coded in there. after the ram reaches that value, every OEM have their own script to do whatever they want to do. in case of samsung, they chose to close the apps with WM_CLOSE. i know my htc devices send the WM_HIBERNATE.

Couldn't gwes.exe be taken from a HTC build and put in ours then?

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It does make sense that some part of the RAM is reserved for the "phone part" but i think that memory must then be somehow mapped to the radio chipset, bypassing the OS. (i think some of you mentioned that windows itself doesn't show the advertised amount of memory, only Samsung's own app does?). I'm sure the device contains 256 MB of RAM but what value do those numbers have if they're being abused like they are now? That's like saying my PC has 4 GB of RAM when in fact it has 3 GB of actual RAM and 1 GB of video memory on the gfx card.

makes sense on calculation but does not make sense in purpose, why the radio chipset need that many RAM? and for the theory about the dedicated RAM for video acceleration is also slightly off too since the WM in fact use the rest of available RAM to render apps leaving only samsung apps that can still only be the one who receive any benefit for this dedicated VRAM ---> and then this case leave us back to the above question, why does it requires so many RAM?.

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I tried to set up all that memory tricks shown here.

All that i obtained was a lack of quality in samsung's media player so i suppose that a part of that missing memory is reserved to the multimedia player.

anyhow, the only app that is not working with samsung's memory setup is igo.

phone must be soft reseted before use of IGO :)

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It does make sense that some part of the RAM is reserved for the "phone part" but i think that memory must then be somehow mapped to the radio chipset, bypassing the OS. (i think some of you mentioned that windows itself doesn't show the advertised amount of memory, only Samsung's own app does?). I'm sure the device contains 256 MB of RAM but what value do those numbers have if they're being abused like they are now? That's like saying my PC has 4 GB of RAM when in fact it has 3 GB of actual RAM and 1 GB of video memory on the gfx card.

The good news is that I found out that while apps are running in the background (or the device is locked) and apps start closing, they receive a WM_CLOSE message. Applications are free the ignore this message but the default behavior of this window messages is to proceed destroying the application's window. So to test what happens when an app explicitly ignores a WM_CLOSE message i made an app that does just that. While other applications got closed my app got the WM_CLOSE message but ignored it. I was expecting that the phone would just kill the process eventually but that didn't happen.

The WM_CLOSE message also made me think that only Samsung is the one to blame here, since Windows Mobile will send a WM_HIBERNATE message to applications (asking them to free as much memory as possible) when the amount of free RAM is below a certain level. But i never got a WM_HIBERNATE message (which probably means the system wasn't that low on RAM anyway, which is also confirmed by the Samsung application that usually shows around ~35 MB of free RAM when it starts closing stuff).

This sounds very logical to me. somehow Samsung's own tweak wants to kill apps way before WM considers memory is low. just hope to find out what Samsung did.

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Have any of you guys tried using this app to keep apps from being closed by windows? :)

"EverApp was created to solve a problem plaguing many users under WM6.5 (though it is potentially beneficial for any WM6.x user). The memory management routines under WM6.5 seem particularly aggressive, and many users experience situations where they can only keep one or two applications open simultaneously before WM begins shutting down background apps"

Edited by Uboy

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Just to add to the i920 tips and tricks to reclaim some of that limited ram we currently posses, I found that remapping the buttons to apps other than samsung UI screens prevents them from taking up RAM. Basically add SPB Mobile Shell, disable Touchwiz and Widgets, Edit the Registry to prevent the default Today screen from loading up and stay away from opening Samsung UI bits like the Apps and Task Screens. At start up I have 86MB of Program Ram free and it settles down to 77ish MB after a day of use. I am not a multitasker and have set the "x" to close programs so I have never really depleted my RAM unless I'm doing heavy Opera Surfing (I found Internet Explorer to be way more resource friendly). What bugs me is that the Verizon version got downgraded to 204mb (as if we didnt have enough memory problems). I wonder if its the same ram as the i8000 but Verizon felt that, to be free from Legal issues, they listed the actual "usable" ram.

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OMG. The so called "reserved" memory is used by Windows for the OS, file system cache etc. Video memory is also part of this memory. On HTC devices it's the same. I have a HD2. The device sees 336 out of 442 MB RAM and on boot you have some 200 free. The HD1 had 288 MB of which around 120 were free for the user. With some ROM's (WM 6.5 + Sense) the free memory dropped to under 100 MB at boot on the HD1 and I never had a problem with performance. The real stupidity of Samsung is that they included only 256 MB RAM. I notice that all Samsung phones have less RAM than their HTC counterparts. On the other hand with a proper task manager it shouldn't be such a problem. You rarely need to have 10 programs open on your phone :)

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OMG. The so called "reserved" memory is used by Windows for the OS, file system cache etc. Video memory is also part of this memory. On HTC devices it's the same. I have a HD2. The device sees 336 out of 442 MB RAM and on boot you have some 200 free. The HD1 had 288 MB of which around 120 were free for the user. With some ROM's (WM 6.5 + Sense) the free memory dropped to under 100 MB at boot on the HD1 and I never had a problem with performance. The real stupidity of Samsung is that they included only 256 MB RAM. I notice that all Samsung phones have less RAM than their HTC counterparts. On the other hand with a proper task manager it shouldn't be such a problem. You rarely need to have 10 programs open on your phone :)

QFT

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All in all, one has to agree that it was really f****** stupid to include only 256 mb ram in O2. Could've made it 320 and make it 10 bucks more

expensive but noooooo.... I'm really pissed at my Omnia at the moment. Really really. Running SPB+MSkipProPlus+S2U2 on L5 rom I have 20 mb free after soft reset :-(

Edited by wookash.p

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