what for and why do OMNIA 2 reserved 50% of it RAM?

[Guest Michael Pang]

To be honest will the O2 have enough memory to run MSN, play music and surf the net at the same time?

I don't really need the phone to do more but my wife is looking at the HTC Leo. If we get that I will, in effect, appropriate that when I go travelling but I don't like the screen on the Leo.

in fact OminaII can do. but after days of use, the available memory will drop and need to reset to free up memory

[Guest Snow02]

As long as you use a UI other than the samsung one, absolutely. Unfortunately it is quite limited out of the box. But ultimately it's not an issue.

[Guest Nablet]

in fact OminaII can do. but after days of use, the available memory will drop and need to reset to free up memory

This also applies to PC's to a certain extent, so, it's not a big problem. I don't really need to do much more than SMS, MSN, surfing and listening to music. For the rest I have my PC, this is why I don't really understand why you guys are complaining about the memory, this is a phone, not a 4-8GB PC. If I'm missing something, please tell me.

[Guest kersey]

in fact OminaII can do. but after days of use, the available memory will drop and need to reset to free up memory

Does this mean after a soft reset the memory is at it's best again???

I always soft reset my Touch HD every couple of days just to keep the phone 'fresh' anyway.

So the phone would be fine for listening to music while browsing the internet then RAM wise while running SPB Mobile shell (Samsung UI disabled of course)??

Edited January 15, 2010 by kersey

[Guest dadis1988]

You can not disable Samsung UI in WinMo 6.5

I run standard WinMo today screen (no SPB shell) after softrestart i have 85 mb of ram.... but... GPSgate, Palringo starts with the system.... (sartup list)

I do not complain over memory leak... but I just want to know, why 50% of memory is reserved

But i would be happy to install CLEAN WinMo ROM with out Samsung UI and Apps... so i can install softweare that i want

Edited January 15, 2010 by dadis1988

[Guest Snow02]

You can not disable Samsung UI in WinMo 6.5

Um, yes you can. Disable Touchwiz and Widget Plus. There are still some skinned apps, but that's not the same thing as the UI.

[Guest sorg]

I don't wanna read whole 12 pages of this topic.

I just wanna to tell how reserved (96mb) is occupied in Omnia 2:

Just to set it down: total reserved memory on Omnia 2 is 96mb. so, 256-96 = 160mb. So, 160MB is available for WM kernel.

20mb from these 160mb is occupied by PagePool. so total available RAM for OS is 140mb.

You may see 139.xx mb in WM about dialog. I saw some utils to change PP size. Actually they are based on change standard adress for PP. But authors of these utilities don't know that kernel of Omnia 2, overwrites this value on boot time, so changes in this address is useless. After patch kernel to prevent overwrite, you may set PP size to 10mb and WM about dialog will show you 149.xx mb of available memory. Voila, we can see that PP is reallu changed and rest 10mb became free for app use.

Now, what are in that 96mb of reserved memory?

1) GSM/3G module occupies 32mb of RAM. 16mb of radio FW is most likely has been copied there on boot time and rest 16mb are used for variables and other data to work.

2) 16mb of shared RAM between GSM/3G and Samsung CPU. It's required for communication.

3) Video Frame Buffers including overlays, directdraw ~10mb

4) 3D buffers occupied ~16mb of RAM.

so, 32+16+10+16 = 74mb of that 96mb.

Still don't know about rest 22mb, but from my experience with other PDAPhones, camera always has fixed reserved memory for sole use. This ensure proper work of DMA which requires continous physically allocated block. So, for 5mpix camera, there is requirements of 10mb of RAM.

so, remains 12mb of reserved memory.

Omnia 2 has other devices require some buffers and i'm sure it's not just wasted.

Before detailed investigations of these 96mb, i've patched kernel to reduce these 96mb. So, i could increase free RAM to about extra 16mb and it worked good unless i tried to use any 3D app (SPB Mobile Shell for instance) and got hang! Of course because these 16mb has been used for 3D buffers.

Future increase of free RAM will lead to unbootable device. I saw how data and code filled screen before hang while booting.. It's because next reserved area - Video Buffers.

So, to sum all things i can tell you that increasing of Free RAM by reserved area is very problematic. In reserved space, there are hard coded addresses in drivers and kernel. You can not tell to kernel to squize some areas. Instead of that, you have to find all accesses to this part of RAM and patch values. But in most cases you won't able to reduce reserved blocks without loose some features. So, you can free 16mb of RAM and loose 3D. Free another 10mb and loose camera. Is it worth it? I don't think so.

Only one possible and harmless way to increase free RAM is to reduce PagePool size. Currently in eboot config area PagePool has been set to 20mb which is crazy high value. 10mb is high enough without loosing performance at all. So, you may expect around extra 10mb of free RAM without harm to performans or features.

[Guest TRoN_1]

Well, I guess that's it then....

[Guest sorg]

by the way, here is some technical spect for Omnia 2's little brother Jet:

http://code.google.com/p/jetdroid/wiki/JetHardware

note about 32mb for GSM + 16mb of shared mem.

[Guest redzone321]

10MB to me is amazing! it means i can run a lock screen

currently i cannot run Opera 10, Palaringmo (chat) and FM Radio or Nitrogin without 1 of them shutting down unless its a fresh boot.

But IMO this ram should be enough if someone can solve why WM doesn't give back all the ram a closed program used.

even the lock screen every time i open then close it i lose a tiny bit of memory that never comes back till soft boot.

[Guest Uboy]

Is it impossible then to make the reserved ram dynamic, so that it is available to whatever requires it whenever it requires it? I mean that most of the time most of this reserved ram is just dormant.... :)

[Guest jeewee85]

Yeah, uboy is right. It is stupid te reserve RAM when it is not used. If i want to use the camera, than take 10 mb ram and when i close it give the 10 MB RAM back. so.. anyway to make it dynamical?

Edit:

Can you make a fix or something so that others can also reduce pagepool?

regards!

Edited January 16, 2010 by jeewee85

[Guest sorg]

dynamic RAM allocation doesn't guarantee to get one big continous physical block (which is required for most hardware devices). That's why manufacturer has to reserve memory at boot time.

But if you think that you are smarter than OEM, then you always can rewrite whole drivers and kernel from ground :)

[Guest Uboy]

dynamic RAM allocation doesn't guarantee to get one big continous physical block (which is required for most hardware devices). That's why manufacturer has to reserve memory at boot time.

But if you think that you are smarter than OEM, then you always can rewrite whole drivers and kernel from ground :)

Well I know I'm not smart enough.....but maybe you are. Please post a cab for this tonight. :)

[Guest jeewee85]

LoL

Ok, i didn`t know that it needs a continuous memory block. I`m a mechanical engineer, tot a software engineer ;-)

Sorg, one question: I have a b7610 and i see that you and secany give new Roms, also for the b7610. Where do these Roms come from? At the b7610 forum, we would really appreciate a new ROM version :)

Regards!

[Guest Nablet]

I don't wanna read whole 12 pages of this topic.

I just wanna to tell how reserved (96mb) is occupied in Omnia 2:

Just to set it down: total reserved memory on Omnia 2 is 96mb. so, 256-96 = 160mb. So, 160MB is available for WM kernel.

20mb from these 160mb is occupied by PagePool. so total available RAM for OS is 140mb.

You may see 139.xx mb in WM about dialog. I saw some utils to change PP size. Actually they are based on change standard adress for PP. But authors of these utilities don't know that kernel of Omnia 2, overwrites this value on boot time, so changes in this address is useless. After patch kernel to prevent overwrite, you may set PP size to 10mb and WM about dialog will show you 149.xx mb of available memory. Voila, we can see that PP is reallu changed and rest 10mb became free for app use.

Now, what are in that 96mb of reserved memory?

1) GSM/3G module occupies 32mb of RAM. 16mb of radio FW is most likely has been copied there on boot time and rest 16mb are used for variables and other data to work.

2) 16mb of shared RAM between GSM/3G and Samsung CPU. It's required for communication.

3) Video Frame Buffers including overlays, directdraw ~10mb

4) 3D buffers occupied ~16mb of RAM.

so, 32+16+10+16 = 74mb of that 96mb.

Still don't know about rest 22mb, but from my experience with other PDAPhones, camera always has fixed reserved memory for sole use. This ensure proper work of DMA which requires continous physically allocated block. So, for 5mpix camera, there is requirements of 10mb of RAM.

so, remains 12mb of reserved memory.

Omnia 2 has other devices require some buffers and i'm sure it's not just wasted.

Before detailed investigations of these 96mb, i've patched kernel to reduce these 96mb. So, i could increase free RAM to about extra 16mb and it worked good unless i tried to use any 3D app (SPB Mobile Shell for instance) and got hang! Of course because these 16mb has been used for 3D buffers.

Future increase of free RAM will lead to unbootable device. I saw how data and code filled screen before hang while booting.. It's because next reserved area - Video Buffers.

So, to sum all things i can tell you that increasing of Free RAM by reserved area is very problematic. In reserved space, there are hard coded addresses in drivers and kernel. You can not tell to kernel to squize some areas. Instead of that, you have to find all accesses to this part of RAM and patch values. But in most cases you won't able to reduce reserved blocks without loose some features. So, you can free 16mb of RAM and loose 3D. Free another 10mb and loose camera. Is it worth it? I don't think so.

Only one possible and harmless way to increase free RAM is to reduce PagePool size. Currently in eboot config area PagePool has been set to 20mb which is crazy high value. 10mb is high enough without loosing performance at all. So, you may expect around extra 10mb of free RAM without harm to performans or features.

How is the PagePool reduced?

[Guest babyjosef17]

I guess it was worth not knowing the reason. Because without knowledge of these, I was very optimistic that I will have more ram in future official rom updates. I guess that's it.

Then I know now what I wish for the next Omnia release. MORE FREAKING RAM !!

If there is an AMOLED, SNAPDRAGON, 512MBRAM or more, Winmo, great still and video camera, phone to be release anytime. That would be my next device.

[Guest fclifton]

Do memory clearing apps, for example FreeRAM part of SKTools, restore full memory without need of a soft reset?

[Guest babyjosef17]

Yup that is what I use now. really effective.

Heck, End of this year maybe, the dream device I was talking about might be the Omnia 3 for all I know.

[Guest surenz]

I guess it was worth not knowing the reason. Because without knowledge of these, I was very optimistic that I will have more ram in future official rom updates. I guess that's it.

Then I know now what I wish for the next Omnia release. MORE FREAKING RAM !!

If there is an AMOLED, SNAPDRAGON, 512MBRAM or more, Winmo, great still and video camera, phone to be release anytime. That would be my next device.

Beside the WinMo you are talking about Google Nexus One :)

[Guest unholygid2006]

This phone looks sexy!

The Apollo is a 3G worldphone (EV-DO and HSDPA) that runs a 1.3GHz Qualcomm QSD8650 processor and a 3.8-inch AMOLED 1280 x 720 WXGA display. The phone also is purported to have a 10 megapixel camera capable of 720p video recording.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/18/windows...ession-running/

[Guest redzone321]

Is it possible to move the page pool to the 16GB internal memory? then we could free up 20 mb of ram which would be plenty.

to me it seems like were right on the cusp of available ram to run Opera + palringo + music / video . another 10-20 mb would put us over the hump and not require us to restart every time we want to run these 3 apps at once.

Edited January 20, 2010 by redzone321

[Guest sorg]

Is it possible to move the page pool to the 16GB internal memory? then we could free up 20 mb of ram which would be plenty.

to me it seems like were right on the cusp of available ram to run Opera + palringo + music / video . another 10-20 mb would put us over the hump and not require us to restart every time we want to run these 3 apps at once.

PagePool located in RAM, not in ROM.. feel the difference!

[Guest redzone321]

PagePool located in RAM, not in ROM.. feel the difference!

Right forgot about that. i guess making a virtual ram drive out of the 16 GB is pointless as its too slow/ way to hard to program?

Edited January 20, 2010 by redzone321

[Guest zula]

I think that in original i900 omnia, Sector made some roms with 0 MB pagepool, that means, dinamyc pagepool. For htc roms there is an app to reduce/increase pagepool before flash the rom.